Discussion:
Facebook and social media privacy question
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jvangurp
2017-10-22 22:20:49 UTC
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I'm trying to find a good analogy for a situation where are you have a real-life friend who doesn't use Facebook out of privacy concerns. They don't want to expose their personal lives to that degree and they have concerns that people might be nosy or know too much about their private lives, so they brush it off as something they're definitely not interested in.

Meanwhile, they reveal that they actually follow you closely through a partner's account or maybe they do in fact have their own account that they don't refresh or post to.

So here's my dilemma: my gut reaction is that it's creepy to have someone do this. It's a one-way e-friendship. Face-to-face friendships are different as it's an equal exchange when you meet up, but having someone follow every one of your posts without interacting, when they tell you they don't like social media because it's a privacy violation, is a lop-sided relationship.

The analogy might be two neighbours facing each other across the street. One keeps their curtains closed at night and the other leaves them wide open. The person with the closed curtains reveals that they watch you through a slit between their closed curtains. It's weird, amirite? So the natural reaction is to close your curtains so the neighbour can't look in your window, and if they want to catch up, you'll gladly do it by having a chat on the porch or going for a coffee. There's no anger or upset at all; it just feels creepy.

In Facebook terms that means setting your privacy so that posts are shared with "friends, except for...".

Am I making sense here, or am I being weird, overly sensitive and/or childish??
l***@fl.it
2017-10-22 23:18:41 UTC
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On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 15:20:49 -0700 (PDT), jvangurp
Post by jvangurp
I'm trying to find a good analogy for a situation where are you have a real-life friend who doesn't use Facebook out of privacy concerns. They don't want to expose their personal lives to that degree and they have concerns that people might be nosy or know too much about their private lives, so they brush it off as something they're definitely not interested in.
Meanwhile, they reveal that they actually follow you closely through a partner's account or maybe they do in fact have their own account that they don't refresh or post to.
So here's my dilemma: my gut reaction is that it's creepy to have someone do this. It's a one-way e-friendship. Face-to-face friendships are different as it's an equal exchange when you meet up, but having someone follow every one of your posts without interacting, when they tell you they don't like social media because it's a privacy violation, is a lop-sided relationship.
The analogy might be two neighbours facing each other across the street. One keeps their curtains closed at night and the other leaves them wide open. The person with the closed curtains reveals that they watch you through a slit between their closed curtains. It's weird, amirite? So the natural reaction is to close your curtains so the neighbour can't look in your window, and if they want to catch up, you'll gladly do it by having a chat on the porch or going for a coffee. There's no anger or upset at all; it just feels creepy.
In Facebook terms that means setting your privacy so that posts are shared with "friends, except for...".
Am I making sense here, or am I being weird, overly sensitive and/or childish??
I find it weird, as you say, or creepy, but then I find the whole FB
thing lacking in privacy and weird. I am happy to see Zuckerburg et
al are now being held up to try and get a handle of bullying and fake
news. If they are so bloody brillliant, shouldn't be difficult.

Slightly ironic that I always used to say to Walker, it's not whether
you are doing anything wrong but who are the watchers???
Mike Spencer
2017-10-23 06:11:52 UTC
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I'm trying to find a good analogy for a situation where are you have a real=
-life friend who doesn't use Facebook out of privacy concerns. They don't w=
ant to expose their personal lives to that degree and they have concerns th=
at people might be nosy or know too much about their private lives, so they=
brush it off as something they're definitely not interested in.
Meanwhile, they reveal that they actually follow you closely through a part=
ner's account or maybe they do in fact have their own account that they don=
't refresh or post to.
So here's my dilemma: my gut reaction is that it's creepy to have someone d=
o this. It's a one-way e-friendship. Face-to-face friendships are different=
as it's an equal exchange when you meet up, but having someone follow ever=
y one of your posts without interacting, when they tell you they don't like=
social media because it's a privacy violation, is a lop-sided relationship=
I'm a little confused here. You have a "real-life friend". I take
that to mean that you know and talk to them face to face or did so
recently. Then you say it's different from "[f]ace to face
friendships".

Is this someone you know only via FB, just as you only know me through
hfx.general?

Or have you googled me? Found my web page? Maybe found some posts I
made to a mailing list that's archived on the net? Found that I'm not
on FB or Twitter? Found the posts I made to alt.people-who-have-sex-
with-goats-that-are-on-fire? (Just joking :-)

If you know them F2F and have learned that they surveil or stalk you
digitally, why not just ask them what's up?

I guess I remain confused about precisely what you're describing.

OTOH, people are weird, eh? A friend's guitar teached turns out to be
a UFO believer. The friend himself cannot *bear* to have dirty plates
stacked one on another. The guy that did a great electronic repair
for me, losing money becasue he stuck to his estimate, expressed
burning interest in the "sovereign citizen" movement. A wizard
craftslady with whom I've spent hundreds of bucks admits to using
homeopathic "remedies". Me? I haven't had a TV for almost 40 years --
probably the least of my eccentricities.

And some people can't resist the lure of finding out everything they
can about friends and acquaintances with the magic of the net.

They're rioting in Africa, they're starving in Spain.
There's hurricanes in Florida, and Texas needs rain.
The whole world is festering with unhappy souls.
The French hate the Germans, the Germans hate the Poles.
Italians hate Yugoslavs, South Africans hate the Dutch.
And I don't like anybody very much!

:-)
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
HRM Resident
2017-10-23 16:31:51 UTC
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Post by Mike Spencer
OTOH, people are weird, eh? A friend's guitar teached turns out to be
a UFO believer. The friend himself cannot *bear* to have dirty plates
stacked one on another. The guy that did a great electronic repair
for me, losing money becasue he stuck to his estimate, expressed
burning interest in the "sovereign citizen" movement. A wizard
craftslady with whom I've spent hundreds of bucks admits to using
homeopathic "remedies". Me? I haven't had a TV for almost 40 years --
probably the least of my eccentricities.
We all have our quirks! Curious why you ditched the TV, but you
are not the first one I know who has taken that approach. I'd miss it,
but perhaps it's just a habit . . . I know my ancestors liked F2F
visits, card games, etc. They didn't have TV and didn't miss it.

I can't stand dirty dishes in the kitchen! I drive my wife crazy .
. . I wash them up as soon as the meal is finished. That's quite
inefficient because there's just the two of us and we ought to save them
up and do it once a day. Yet if I see a dirty plate or fork, I
immediately wash it. We all have our eccentricities.

Why I even let an experienced blacksmith talk me into learning the
craft in my 60s! :-) Great fun. Burnt hands, carcinogenic fumes from
the coal forge, dirty smoke all over the yard so DW can't hang her
clothes on the line most days**, triples the arthritic pain, I buy
obsolete tools or make my own, etc. Nothing wrong with me! :-) If the
wind is blowing the right way, we have coal smoke flavoured vegetables.
Nothing wrong with me! :-)

** Yeah, we have a dryer and have had one for 45 years . . . yet we only
use it once or twice a year. Nothing wrong with us! :-)
--
HRM Resident
Mike Spencer
2017-10-23 18:48:16 UTC
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Curious why you ditched the TV, but you are not the first one I know
who has taken that approach.
Initially, because we moved to a house with no electricuty, lived
without it for years.

Later, an amusing story. I would occasionally watch TV with my two
sons who were then around 12 or 13. I would point out to them that
ca. 20% of an hour was taken up with ads; how high level of technical
effects -- voice over, cuts, crossfades, pans etc. -- were used to keep
your atention riveted, keep you in a trance; how content was determined
by what the advertizers wanted and so on.

One day, we asked where the TV was and they said they's paid attention
to my observations and had put it away in the attic. Well & good.

Some years later, when R. Reagan was shot and no one knew how badly
off he was, we dragged the TV downstairs to get the latest and --
whaddya know? It didn't work, or just barely worked. Then the story
came out. The boys had accidentally dropped it down the stairs while
we were away, broke it, decided that the "listened to dad" gambit was
the best way to go.

So we now have a big old CRT colour TV set but it doesn't do broadcast
TV and there's no cable here. It's connected to a VCR & DVD player.
And we've accumulated maybe 300 DVDs since the industry started
flogging them off in discount bins for under 10 bucks. Maybe as much
as 10% of them great finds: Hunt for Red October, Buster Keaton's The
General, both versions of Solaris, African Queen, Chinatown, both
versions of Little Shop of Horrors, other more obscure gems. We've
become (perhaps not very discriminating) cineasts in our elder years.
I know my ancestors liked F2F visits, card games, etc. They didn't
have TV and didn't miss it.
My parents never had a TV until they retired and I was long gone from
home. Card games were infra dig and borderline sinful because of the
association with gambling but Monopoly was okay. So I grew up without
TV and never missed it, never became addicted after my inlaws saw how
deprived we were and gave us one. I have a quarterly exposure to TV
in the dentist's chair. I think of it as my homeopathic dose of
something that would, in less diluted doses, rot my brain -- thus a
homeopathic remedy for brain rot in general. :-)
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
l***@fl.it
2017-10-23 19:00:31 UTC
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On 23 Oct 2017 15:48:16 -0300, Mike Spencer
Post by Mike Spencer
Curious why you ditched the TV, but you are not the first one I know
who has taken that approach.
Initially, because we moved to a house with no electricuty, lived
without it for years.
Later, an amusing story. I would occasionally watch TV with my two
sons who were then around 12 or 13. I would point out to them that
ca. 20% of an hour was taken up with ads; how high level of technical
effects -- voice over, cuts, crossfades, pans etc. -- were used to keep
your atention riveted, keep you in a trance; how content was determined
by what the advertizers wanted and so on.
One day, we asked where the TV was and they said they's paid attention
to my observations and had put it away in the attic. Well & good.
Some years later, when R. Reagan was shot and no one knew how badly
off he was, we dragged the TV downstairs to get the latest and --
whaddya know? It didn't work, or just barely worked. Then the story
came out. The boys had accidentally dropped it down the stairs while
we were away, broke it, decided that the "listened to dad" gambit was
the best way to go.
I keep one so I can watch the news, but I cut the cable last May. Do
still watch stuff, but I was never a heavy user anyway.
Post by Mike Spencer
So we now have a big old CRT colour TV set but it doesn't do broadcast
TV and there's no cable here. It's connected to a VCR & DVD player.
And we've accumulated maybe 300 DVDs since the industry started
flogging them off in discount bins for under 10 bucks. Maybe as much
as 10% of them great finds: Hunt for Red October, Buster Keaton's The
General, both versions of Solaris, African Queen, Chinatown, both
versions of Little Shop of Horrors, other more obscure gems. We've
become (perhaps not very discriminating) cineasts in our elder years.
I know my ancestors liked F2F visits, card games, etc. They didn't
have TV and didn't miss it.
My parents never had a TV until they retired and I was long gone from
home. Card games were infra dig and borderline sinful because of the
association with gambling but Monopoly was okay. So I grew up without
TV and never missed it, never became addicted after my inlaws saw how
deprived we were and gave us one. I have a quarterly exposure to TV
in the dentist's chair. I think of it as my homeopathic dose of
something that would, in less diluted doses, rot my brain -- thus a
homeopathic remedy for brain rot in general. :-)
Clearly the three of us are weird :) One thing that greatly surprised
me was when DosMan, aka Richard Bonner took to FB and deserted usenet.
HRM Resident
2017-10-23 19:50:31 UTC
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Post by l***@fl.it
Clearly the three of us are weird :) One thing that greatly surprised
me was when DosMan, aka Richard Bonner took to FB and deserted usenet.
He was tough and he stuck it out a long time. Eventually the
nonsense wore him down, I guess. I still like usenet because it's fast,
simple and such. However, I think we are in the minority.
--
HRM Resident
jvangurp
2017-10-24 23:54:28 UTC
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Post by HRM Resident
Post by l***@fl.it
Clearly the three of us are weird :) One thing that greatly surprised
me was when DosMan, aka Richard Bonner took to FB and deserted usenet.
He was tough and he stuck it out a long time. Eventually the
nonsense wore him down, I guess. I still like usenet because it's fast,
simple and such. However, I think we are in the minority.
--
HRM Resident
He doesn't use Facebook much. Every once in a while he posts a photo of himself having lunch somewhere: a chicken sandwich, or fish and chips and a milkshake, always using the Third Person in the photo captions. It's pretty funny. I like Richard. We saw him at the HNO there a few weeks ago.

Cheers,
John
l***@fl.it
2017-10-25 09:57:22 UTC
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On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 16:54:28 -0700 (PDT), jvangurp
Post by jvangurp
Post by HRM Resident
Post by l***@fl.it
Clearly the three of us are weird :) One thing that greatly surprised
me was when DosMan, aka Richard Bonner took to FB and deserted usenet.
He was tough and he stuck it out a long time. Eventually the
nonsense wore him down, I guess. I still like usenet because it's fast,
simple and such. However, I think we are in the minority.
--
HRM Resident
He doesn't use Facebook much. Every once in a while he posts a photo of himself having lunch somewhere: a chicken sandwich, or fish and chips and a milkshake, always using the Third Person in the photo captions. It's pretty funny. I like Richard. We saw him at the HNO there a few weeks ago.
Cheers,
John
Don't get me wrong, wouldn't diss Mr. Dos, I'm very fond of him, he
has really achieved.
Mike Small
2017-10-24 17:18:06 UTC
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Post by Mike Spencer
My parents never had a TV until they retired and I was long gone from
home. Card games were infra dig and borderline sinful because of the
association with gambling but Monopoly was okay. So I grew up without
My grandparents also thought playing cards were sinful, but for some
reason Uno was okay, which we played a lot of at their house. That and a
card game with flax, wheat, etc. on the cards where you aimed to corner
the market on a commodity.
--
Mike Small
***@sdf.org
l***@fl.it
2017-10-24 18:30:43 UTC
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Post by Mike Small
Post by Mike Spencer
My parents never had a TV until they retired and I was long gone from
home. Card games were infra dig and borderline sinful because of the
association with gambling but Monopoly was okay. So I grew up without
My grandparents also thought playing cards were sinful, but for some
reason Uno was okay, which we played a lot of at their house. That and a
card game with flax, wheat, etc. on the cards where you aimed to corner
the market on a commodity.
My grandmother used to order three of us to play Canasta with her.
Ingrates that we were we used to see what was in her hand reflected in
her glasses :)

We had great friends who often came to the cottage with us for
weekends. We played bridge into the small hours but she always said
she felt off playing on Sunday because her mother would have
disapproved violently.
jvangurp
2017-10-24 23:48:17 UTC
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Post by Mike Spencer
I'm trying to find a good analogy for a situation where are you have a real=
-life friend who doesn't use Facebook out of privacy concerns. They don't w=
ant to expose their personal lives to that degree and they have concerns th=
at people might be nosy or know too much about their private lives, so they=
brush it off as something they're definitely not interested in.
Meanwhile, they reveal that they actually follow you closely through a part=
ner's account or maybe they do in fact have their own account that they don=
't refresh or post to.
So here's my dilemma: my gut reaction is that it's creepy to have someone d=
o this. It's a one-way e-friendship. Face-to-face friendships are different=
as it's an equal exchange when you meet up, but having someone follow ever=
y one of your posts without interacting, when they tell you they don't like=
social media because it's a privacy violation, is a lop-sided relationship=
I'm a little confused here. You have a "real-life friend". I take
that to mean that you know and talk to them face to face or did so
recently. Then you say it's different from "[f]ace to face
friendships".
Yar... poorly worded perhaps. There are real-life friends, i.e. people I know and socialize with face-to-face, and there are e-friends, who I don't know in real life other than to see their Facebook feeds etc. I might know exactly who they are and we share information on social media but we don't interact otherwise.

Real-life friends are different from e-friends.
Post by Mike Spencer
Is this someone you know only via FB, just as you only know me through
hfx.general?
Or have you googled me? Found my web page? Maybe found some posts I
made to a mailing list that's archived on the net? Found that I'm not
on FB or Twitter? Found the posts I made to alt.people-who-have-sex-
with-goats-that-are-on-fire? (Just joking :-)
If you know them F2F and have learned that they surveil or stalk you
digitally, why not just ask them what's up?
There's no nefariousness involved, and those who follow my every post without ever being willing to post their own updates, out of concern for their privacy, are the ones I consider to be inducing the creepy feeling. They have no clue they are doing anything weird. They think it's perfectly OK to have almost no contact with me for months, and then when I see them, they are completely up-to-date on every status update I've made.

Now if they have their own Facebook account I can sort of accept it. But if they sneeringly proclaim they would never use Facebook, and then it's revealed they follow every move I make though a spouse's account - well that is just fucking bizarre.
Post by Mike Spencer
I guess I remain confused about precisely what you're describing.
OTOH, people are weird, eh? A friend's guitar teached turns out to be
a UFO believer. The friend himself cannot *bear* to have dirty plates
stacked one on another. The guy that did a great electronic repair
for me, losing money becasue he stuck to his estimate, expressed
burning interest in the "sovereign citizen" movement. A wizard
craftslady with whom I've spent hundreds of bucks admits to using
homeopathic "remedies". Me? I haven't had a TV for almost 40 years --
probably the least of my eccentricities.
And some people can't resist the lure of finding out everything they
can about friends and acquaintances with the magic of the net.
Ha - you summed it up nicely, and at the end of the day I choose to share, a LOT of information. That's just how I roll... I'm a bit of a compulsive sharer. So I should just accept the oddballs along with everything else. I have my own eccentricities as well.

Thanks for your comments Mike!

Cheers,
John
Post by Mike Spencer
They're rioting in Africa, they're starving in Spain.
There's hurricanes in Florida, and Texas needs rain.
The whole world is festering with unhappy souls.
The French hate the Germans, the Germans hate the Poles.
Italians hate Yugoslavs, South Africans hate the Dutch.
And I don't like anybody very much!
:-)
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Mike Spencer
2017-10-25 04:57:02 UTC
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Post by jvangurp
There's no nefariousness involved, and those who follow my every
post without ever being willing to post their own updates, out of
concern for their privacy, are the ones I consider to be inducing
the creepy feeling. They have no clue they are doing anything
weird. They think it's perfectly OK to have almost no contact with
me for months, and then when I see them, they arecompletely
up-to-date on every status update I've made.
Now if they have their own Facebook account I can sort of accept
it. But ifthey sneeringly proclaim they would never use Facebook,
and then it's revealed they follow every move I make though a
spouse's account - well that is just fucking bizarre.
Mildly creepy. Sneering about "never FB" and then using it a lot to
follow others is mildly creepy but also suggests they have some
problems in personality and/or rationality.

I would not regard such a person as bad or overly worrisome but I
would treat them with caution. But then, I would treat someone who
spends a lot of time on FB with caution, too. :-)
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
HRM Resident
2017-10-23 13:52:30 UTC
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Post by jvangurp
I'm trying to find a good analogy for a situation where are you have a real-life friend who doesn't use Facebook out of privacy concerns. They don't want to expose their personal lives to that degree and they have concerns that people might be nosy or know too much about their private lives, so they brush it off as something they're definitely not interested in.
Meanwhile, they reveal that they actually follow you closely through a partner's account or maybe they do in fact have their own account that they don't refresh or post to.
So here's my dilemma: my gut reaction is that it's creepy to have someone do this. It's a one-way e-friendship. Face-to-face friendships are different as it's an equal exchange when you meet up, but having someone follow every one of your posts without interacting, when they tell you they don't like social media because it's a privacy violation, is a lop-sided relationship.
The analogy might be two neighbours facing each other across the street. One keeps their curtains closed at night and the other leaves them wide open. The person with the closed curtains reveals that they watch you through a slit between their closed curtains. It's weird, amirite? So the natural reaction is to close your curtains so the neighbour can't look in your window, and if they want to catch up, you'll gladly do it by having a chat on the porch or going for a coffee. There's no anger or upset at all; it just feels creepy.
In Facebook terms that means setting your privacy so that posts are shared with "friends, except for...".
Am I making sense here, or am I being weird, overly sensitive and/or childish??
You are making 100% sense to me. I don't use social media for the
reasons you describe. I guess, while I like to share stories with
people, etc, it's not worth the privacy risk one takes with FB and other
social media platforms.

Probably there isn't as much identity theft as those obsessed with
privacy tell us, but I still find it creepy the amount of information
you or I can find out about people on the Internet . . . probably if I
had a FB account I'd be more efficient at "data mining" other
individual's personal information out of curiosity. Somehow that sort
of snooping would turn me off as bad as if I was literally peeping into
their windows at night. That's why I don't have anything to do with
social media. I'm not a peeping Tom, and I don't want to make it easy
for those who are to peep at me. YMMV.
--
HRM Resident
jvangurp
2017-10-24 23:51:39 UTC
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Post by HRM Resident
Post by jvangurp
I'm trying to find a good analogy for a situation where are you have a real-life friend who doesn't use Facebook out of privacy concerns. They don't want to expose their personal lives to that degree and they have concerns that people might be nosy or know too much about their private lives, so they brush it off as something they're definitely not interested in.
Meanwhile, they reveal that they actually follow you closely through a partner's account or maybe they do in fact have their own account that they don't refresh or post to.
So here's my dilemma: my gut reaction is that it's creepy to have someone do this. It's a one-way e-friendship. Face-to-face friendships are different as it's an equal exchange when you meet up, but having someone follow every one of your posts without interacting, when they tell you they don't like social media because it's a privacy violation, is a lop-sided relationship.
The analogy might be two neighbours facing each other across the street. One keeps their curtains closed at night and the other leaves them wide open. The person with the closed curtains reveals that they watch you through a slit between their closed curtains. It's weird, amirite? So the natural reaction is to close your curtains so the neighbour can't look in your window, and if they want to catch up, you'll gladly do it by having a chat on the porch or going for a coffee. There's no anger or upset at all; it just feels creepy.
In Facebook terms that means setting your privacy so that posts are shared with "friends, except for...".
Am I making sense here, or am I being weird, overly sensitive and/or childish??
You are making 100% sense to me. I don't use social media for the
reasons you describe. I guess, while I like to share stories with
people, etc, it's not worth the privacy risk one takes with FB and other
social media platforms.
Probably there isn't as much identity theft as those obsessed with
privacy tell us, but I still find it creepy the amount of information
you or I can find out about people on the Internet . . . probably if I
had a FB account I'd be more efficient at "data mining" other
individual's personal information out of curiosity. Somehow that sort
of snooping would turn me off as bad as if I was literally peeping into
their windows at night. That's why I don't have anything to do with
social media. I'm not a peeping Tom, and I don't want to make it easy
for those who are to peep at me. YMMV.
--
HRM Resident
Let me clarify, I'm not too concerned about my privacy. I go so far as to leave on the GPS and Location Services on my phone 24/7. Google keeps an accurate and complete record of everywhere I move, and with geotagging switched on as well, even my photos are attached to my movement timeline. I'm absolutely fascinated by all this and I'm willing to sacrifice the illusion of privacy that would come with turning all this stuff off.

No, it's not privacy that's the issue with those folks I described. It's more of a tit-for-tat thing. It's a very "Mr. Bean" idea and I think I may simply be weird.

Cheers!
John
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