Discussion:
Suspicious email?
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Wayne Hines
2017-10-29 13:27:23 UTC
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Received an email this morning from wmd<***@piano.ocn.ne.jp>, with
the following in the body:

http://folder.lnbsolutions.com

Wmd


It had been copied to email addresses for several other current or former
posters on this newsgroup. Looks somewhat suspicious to me.
--
I used to care but things have changed.
l***@fl.it
2017-10-29 13:32:41 UTC
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On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 13:27:23 GMT, Wayne Hines
Post by Wayne Hines
http://folder.lnbsolutions.com
Wmd
It had been copied to email addresses for several other current or former
posters on this newsgroup. Looks somewhat suspicious to me.
I see at the end you can send for a bottle of the stuff, it's likely
one of those traps marketplace uncovered where you apply for the free
trial and then it starts hitting your credit card with outrageous
debits.

I am certain wmd did not send it, maybe I should tell him someone is
using his email, will do.
Wayne Hines
2017-10-29 15:03:26 UTC
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Post by l***@fl.it
On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 13:27:23 GMT, Wayne Hines
Post by Wayne Hines
http://folder.lnbsolutions.com
Wmd
It had been copied to email addresses for several other current or
former posters on this newsgroup. Looks somewhat suspicious to me.
I see at the end you can send for a bottle of the stuff, it's likely one
of those traps marketplace uncovered where you apply for the free trial
and then it starts hitting your credit card with outrageous debits.
I am certain wmd did not send it, maybe I should tell him someone is
using his email, will do.
I didn't try to follow the link. We get a fair number of scam emails and
they quickly land in the trash folder and get deleted.

gwh
--
I used to care but things have changed.
jvangurp
2017-10-31 10:59:14 UTC
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Post by Wayne Hines
http://folder.lnbsolutions.com
Wmd
It had been copied to email addresses for several other current or former
posters on this newsgroup. Looks somewhat suspicious to me.
--
I feel left out :-(
l***@fl.it
2017-10-31 11:17:22 UTC
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On Tue, 31 Oct 2017 03:59:14 -0700 (PDT), jvangurp
Post by jvangurp
Post by Wayne Hines
http://folder.lnbsolutions.com
Wmd
It had been copied to email addresses for several other current or former
posters on this newsgroup. Looks somewhat suspicious to me.
--
I feel left out :-(
Me too :( Go on Wayne, tell who it hit, might be people we can ask
to the next HNO
Wayne Hines
2017-11-01 10:04:00 UTC
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Post by l***@fl.it
Post by jvangurp
Post by Wayne Hines
http://folder.lnbsolutions.com
Wmd
It had been copied to email addresses for several other current or
former posters on this newsgroup. Looks somewhat suspicious to me.
--
I feel left out :-(
Me too :( Go on Wayne, tell who it hit, might be people we can ask
to the next HNO
Here are the others. I've just used part of the names/addresses.

Richard B., Marilyn E, sheena, oldtrout, Brian S., Rick W.

gwh
--
I used to care but things have changed.
MYOB@home.com
2017-11-01 15:32:50 UTC
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Post by Wayne Hines
Post by l***@fl.it
Post by jvangurp
Post by Wayne Hines
http://folder.lnbsolutions.com
Wmd
It had been copied to email addresses for several other current or
former posters on this newsgroup. Looks somewhat suspicious to me.
--
I feel left out :-(
Me too :( Go on Wayne, tell who it hit, might be people we can ask
to the next HNO
Here are the others. I've just used part of the names/addresses.
Richard B., Marilyn E, sheena, oldtrout, Brian S., Rick W.
gwh
--
I used to care but things have changed.
It has to be someone who USED to be a regular and hasn't been around for a while because they would know that Old Trout died. Brian S and Rick W. haven't been around for a month of Sundays either so it's an "alumnus/a"
HRM Resident
2017-11-01 16:09:55 UTC
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Post by ***@home.com
Post by Wayne Hines
Post by l***@fl.it
Post by jvangurp
Post by Wayne Hines
http://folder.lnbsolutions.com
Wmd
It had been copied to email addresses for several other current or
former posters on this newsgroup. Looks somewhat suspicious to me.
--
I feel left out :-(
Me too :( Go on Wayne, tell who it hit, might be people we can ask
to the next HNO
Here are the others. I've just used part of the names/addresses.
Richard B., Marilyn E, sheena, oldtrout, Brian S., Rick W.
gwh
--
I used to care but things have changed.
It has to be someone who USED to be a regular and hasn't been around for a while because they would know that Old Trout died. Brian S and Rick W. haven't been around for a month of Sundays either so it's an "alumnus/a"
I don't know where the "alumni" went or are. The original post of
http://folder.lnbsolutions.com

redirects you to

http://hotlimitlessmind.asia

specifically to an article about Stephen Hawking and how smart he is.
They seem to be trying to sell some kind of brain enhancing pills.

The two URLs don't resolve on the DNS server(s) I'm using, but
one's browser is directed to those pages nonetheless:

# nslookup http://hotlimitlessmind.asia
Server: 208.67.222.222
Address: 208.67.222.222#53

** server can't find http://hotlimitlessmind.asia: NXDOMAIN

# nslookup http://folder.lnbsolutions.com
Server: 208.67.222.222
Address: 208.67.222.222#53

** server can't find http://folder.lnbsolutions.com: NXDOMAIN

#

Someone is playing around with IP spoofing and such fun stuff, it
seems. It doesn't appear to be a malicious site, but the source code
for http://hotlimitlessmind.asia is full of cryptic java code, so it's
probably not a good idea to visit those sites . . . unless you are very
careful . . . I checked them on a "throw away" Linux based Raspberry Pi
that I formatted after the visit, so I think I'm safe!

It's probably harmless, but why take a chance? Everyone is a crook!
--
HRM Resident
l***@fl.it
2017-11-01 18:01:36 UTC
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On Wed, 1 Nov 2017 13:09:55 -0300, HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
Post by ***@home.com
Post by Wayne Hines
Post by l***@fl.it
Post by jvangurp
Post by Wayne Hines
http://folder.lnbsolutions.com
Wmd
It had been copied to email addresses for several other current or
former posters on this newsgroup. Looks somewhat suspicious to me.
--
I feel left out :-(
Me too :( Go on Wayne, tell who it hit, might be people we can ask
to the next HNO
Here are the others. I've just used part of the names/addresses.
Richard B., Marilyn E, sheena, oldtrout, Brian S., Rick W.
gwh
--
I used to care but things have changed.
It has to be someone who USED to be a regular and hasn't been around for a while because they would know that Old Trout died. Brian S and Rick W. haven't been around for a month of Sundays either so it's an "alumnus/a"
I don't know where the "alumni" went or are. The original post of
http://folder.lnbsolutions.com
redirects you to
http://hotlimitlessmind.asia
specifically to an article about Stephen Hawking and how smart he is.
They seem to be trying to sell some kind of brain enhancing pills.
The two URLs don't resolve on the DNS server(s) I'm using, but
# nslookup http://hotlimitlessmind.asia
Server: 208.67.222.222
Address: 208.67.222.222#53
** server can't find http://hotlimitlessmind.asia: NXDOMAIN
# nslookup http://folder.lnbsolutions.com
Server: 208.67.222.222
Address: 208.67.222.222#53
** server can't find http://folder.lnbsolutions.com: NXDOMAIN
#
Someone is playing around with IP spoofing and such fun stuff, it
seems. It doesn't appear to be a malicious site, but the source code
for http://hotlimitlessmind.asia is full of cryptic java code, so it's
probably not a good idea to visit those sites . . . unless you are very
careful . . . I checked them on a "throw away" Linux based Raspberry Pi
that I formatted after the visit, so I think I'm safe!
It's probably harmless, but why take a chance? Everyone is a crook!
I thought it was a case, like the ones recently trumped on
Marketplace, where you can send for a 'free' sample but they then
start dinging your credit card.
l***@fl.it
2017-11-01 15:54:40 UTC
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On Wed, 01 Nov 2017 10:04:00 GMT, Wayne Hines
Post by Wayne Hines
Post by l***@fl.it
Post by jvangurp
Post by Wayne Hines
http://folder.lnbsolutions.com
Wmd
It had been copied to email addresses for several other current or
former posters on this newsgroup. Looks somewhat suspicious to me.
--
I feel left out :-(
Me too :( Go on Wayne, tell who it hit, might be people we can ask
to the next HNO
Here are the others. I've just used part of the names/addresses.
Richard B., Marilyn E, sheena, oldtrout, Brian S., Rick W.
gwh
Richard has same addy, Marilyn I'm not so sure, I used to be Eastlink
but dumped them, OT is dead I think, Brian S. I don't know. RW moved
but maybe has the same addy.
HRM Resident
2017-11-01 16:12:16 UTC
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Post by l***@fl.it
On Wed, 01 Nov 2017 10:04:00 GMT, Wayne Hines
Post by Wayne Hines
Post by l***@fl.it
Post by jvangurp
Post by Wayne Hines
http://folder.lnbsolutions.com
Wmd
It had been copied to email addresses for several other current or
former posters on this newsgroup. Looks somewhat suspicious to me.
--
I feel left out :-(
Me too :( Go on Wayne, tell who it hit, might be people we can ask
to the next HNO
Here are the others. I've just used part of the names/addresses.
Richard B., Marilyn E, sheena, oldtrout, Brian S., Rick W.
gwh
Richard has same addy, Marilyn I'm not so sure, I used to be Eastlink
but dumped them, OT is dead I think, Brian S. I don't know. RW moved
but maybe has the same addy.
Are you still dating RW?

(I'm heading overseas to hide in the equivalent of a witness protection
program, and just boarding the flight. You can't catch me! LOL)
--
HRM Resident
l***@fl.it
2017-11-01 18:02:40 UTC
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On Wed, 1 Nov 2017 13:12:16 -0300, HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
Post by l***@fl.it
On Wed, 01 Nov 2017 10:04:00 GMT, Wayne Hines
Post by Wayne Hines
Post by l***@fl.it
Post by jvangurp
Post by Wayne Hines
http://folder.lnbsolutions.com
Wmd
It had been copied to email addresses for several other current or
former posters on this newsgroup. Looks somewhat suspicious to me.
--
I feel left out :-(
Me too :( Go on Wayne, tell who it hit, might be people we can ask
to the next HNO
Here are the others. I've just used part of the names/addresses.
Richard B., Marilyn E, sheena, oldtrout, Brian S., Rick W.
gwh
Richard has same addy, Marilyn I'm not so sure, I used to be Eastlink
but dumped them, OT is dead I think, Brian S. I don't know. RW moved
but maybe has the same addy.
Are you still dating RW?
(I'm heading overseas to hide in the equivalent of a witness protection
program, and just boarding the flight. You can't catch me! LOL)
Weelllll, we can see you didn't take the fifth, but you probably need
a fifth now :)
jvangurp
2017-11-02 19:38:14 UTC
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Post by l***@fl.it
On Wed, 1 Nov 2017 13:12:16 -0300, HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
Post by l***@fl.it
On Wed, 01 Nov 2017 10:04:00 GMT, Wayne Hines
Post by Wayne Hines
Post by l***@fl.it
Post by jvangurp
Post by Wayne Hines
http://folder.lnbsolutions.com
Wmd
It had been copied to email addresses for several other current or
former posters on this newsgroup. Looks somewhat suspicious to me.
--
I feel left out :-(
Me too :( Go on Wayne, tell who it hit, might be people we can ask
to the next HNO
Here are the others. I've just used part of the names/addresses.
Richard B., Marilyn E, sheena, oldtrout, Brian S., Rick W.
gwh
Richard has same addy, Marilyn I'm not so sure, I used to be Eastlink
but dumped them, OT is dead I think, Brian S. I don't know. RW moved
but maybe has the same addy.
Are you still dating RW?
(I'm heading overseas to hide in the equivalent of a witness protection
program, and just boarding the flight. You can't catch me! LOL)
Weelllll, we can see you didn't take the fifth, but you probably need
a fifth now :)
Yes Oldtrout is extremely dead at this point. It begs the question: what would he be doing if he was alive today. Scratching like hell to get out of the coffin I would guess.

LB I didn't know anything at all about you dating RW! ;-)

Maybe if I was still ***@chebucto.ns.ca I too would have been blessed with the spammaroonie email.
l***@fl.it
2017-11-03 11:15:37 UTC
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Post by jvangurp
Post by l***@fl.it
On Wed, 1 Nov 2017 13:12:16 -0300, HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
Post by l***@fl.it
On Wed, 01 Nov 2017 10:04:00 GMT, Wayne Hines
Post by Wayne Hines
Post by l***@fl.it
Post by jvangurp
Post by Wayne Hines
http://folder.lnbsolutions.com
Wmd
It had been copied to email addresses for several other current or
former posters on this newsgroup. Looks somewhat suspicious to me.
--
I feel left out :-(
Me too :( Go on Wayne, tell who it hit, might be people we can ask
to the next HNO
Here are the others. I've just used part of the names/addresses.
Richard B., Marilyn E, sheena, oldtrout, Brian S., Rick W.
gwh
Richard has same addy, Marilyn I'm not so sure, I used to be Eastlink
but dumped them, OT is dead I think, Brian S. I don't know. RW moved
but maybe has the same addy.
Are you still dating RW?
(I'm heading overseas to hide in the equivalent of a witness protection
program, and just boarding the flight. You can't catch me! LOL)
Weelllll, we can see you didn't take the fifth, but you probably need
a fifth now :)
Yes Oldtrout is extremely dead at this point. It begs the question: what would he be doing if he was alive today. Scratching like hell to get out of the coffin I would guess.
LB I didn't know anything at all about you dating RW! ;-)
Really? Why am I not surprised :)
axemen99
2017-11-04 10:42:58 UTC
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Post by l***@fl.it
Richard has same addy, Marilyn I'm not so sure, I used to be Eastlink
but dumped them, OT is dead I think, Brian S. I don't know. RW moved
but maybe has the same addy.
OT, bless his interesting posts.
Will be in HK in December.
l***@fl.it
2017-11-04 11:19:25 UTC
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Post by axemen99
Post by l***@fl.it
Richard has same addy, Marilyn I'm not so sure, I used to be Eastlink
but dumped them, OT is dead I think, Brian S. I don't know. RW moved
but maybe has the same addy.
OT, bless his interesting posts.
Will be in HK in December.
ooh nice! Pat the ground for me and tell it I still remember and love
it :)
axemen99
2017-11-05 14:42:27 UTC
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Post by l***@fl.it
Post by axemen99
OT, bless his interesting posts.
Will be in HK in December.
ooh nice! Pat the ground for me and tell it I still remember and love
it :)
Sure will. Your former abode is still standing and lovely place, from Google maps.
l***@fl.it
2017-11-05 15:30:49 UTC
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Post by axemen99
Post by l***@fl.it
Post by axemen99
OT, bless his interesting posts.
Will be in HK in December.
ooh nice! Pat the ground for me and tell it I still remember and love
it :)
Sure will. Your former abode is still standing and lovely place, from Google maps.
I saw a request for info recently, someone putting together details of
the original houses, but I decided to stay silent ! Just this once
you understand :)
HRM Resident
2017-11-05 15:33:07 UTC
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Post by l***@fl.it
Post by axemen99
Post by l***@fl.it
Richard has same addy, Marilyn I'm not so sure, I used to be Eastlink
but dumped them, OT is dead I think, Brian S. I don't know. RW moved
but maybe has the same addy.
OT, bless his interesting posts.
Will be in HK in December.
ooh nice! Pat the ground for me and tell it I still remember and love
it :)
Were you stationed there during your service in the Vietnam War?
It's a fairly short flight from HK to the Mekong Delta, I'd guess! That
must have been a blast . . . grooving to the music of James Brown while
dodging the NVA, and even the "friendly fire" from Nixon's Agent Orange
defoliant!

At least you got home safely and on time. "I prefer those who
weren't captured." :-)
--
HRM Resident
l***@fl.it
2017-11-05 15:53:45 UTC
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On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 11:33:07 -0400, HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
Post by l***@fl.it
Post by axemen99
Post by l***@fl.it
Richard has same addy, Marilyn I'm not so sure, I used to be Eastlink
but dumped them, OT is dead I think, Brian S. I don't know. RW moved
but maybe has the same addy.
OT, bless his interesting posts.
Will be in HK in December.
ooh nice! Pat the ground for me and tell it I still remember and love
it :)
Were you stationed there during your service in the Vietnam War?
It's a fairly short flight from HK to the Mekong Delta, I'd guess! That
must have been a blast . . . grooving to the music of James Brown while
dodging the NVA, and even the "friendly fire" from Nixon's Agent Orange
defoliant!
At least you got home safely and on time. "I prefer those who
weren't captured." :-)
Nope! Before that! During the Viet Nam fiasco we were in Tokyo and
so long ago the flights used to stop at Okinawa to refuel. The Yanks
were using it to fly their jets, nope, as I say that, wrong war, that
was Korea :(

My uncle was taken prisoner at the Battle of Imjin River, they were to
take a hill and the Yanks were to join them, only they never showed up
and there were many casualties and many taken prisoner. He endured
the brain washing etc and was one of the last three prisoners
repatriated along with Col. Carne and Anthony Farrar-Hockley. They
were all in the same Gloucestershire Regiment.

"Though minor in scale, the battle's ferocity caught the imagination
of the world", especially the fate of the 1st Battalion, The
Gloucestershire Regiment, which was outnumbered and eventually
surrounded by Chinese forces on Hill 235, a feature that became known
as Gloster Hill. The stand of the Gloucestershire battalion, together
with other actions of the 29th Brigade in the Battle of the Imjin
River, has become an important part of British military history and
tradition.


Back on track, we were here during Viet Nam. David was offered a
great job in San Antonio, Texas, but I didn't like the idea of our son
growing up and the VN war still going and he would be drafted. I
preferred to stay here and it was an excellent decision.

So Trump wouldn't like my uncle either :)
HRM Resident
2017-11-06 12:43:05 UTC
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Post by l***@fl.it
On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 11:33:07 -0400, HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
Post by l***@fl.it
Post by axemen99
Post by l***@fl.it
Richard has same addy, Marilyn I'm not so sure, I used to be Eastlink
but dumped them, OT is dead I think, Brian S. I don't know. RW moved
but maybe has the same addy.
OT, bless his interesting posts.
Will be in HK in December.
ooh nice! Pat the ground for me and tell it I still remember and love
it :)
Were you stationed there during your service in the Vietnam War?
It's a fairly short flight from HK to the Mekong Delta, I'd guess! That
must have been a blast . . . grooving to the music of James Brown while
dodging the NVA, and even the "friendly fire" from Nixon's Agent Orange
defoliant!
At least you got home safely and on time. "I prefer those who
weren't captured." :-)
Nope! Before that! During the Viet Nam fiasco we were in Tokyo and
so long ago the flights used to stop at Okinawa to refuel. The Yanks
were using it to fly their jets, nope, as I say that, wrong war, that
was Korea :(
My uncle was taken prisoner at the Battle of Imjin River, they were to
take a hill and the Yanks were to join them, only they never showed up
and there were many casualties and many taken prisoner. He endured
the brain washing etc and was one of the last three prisoners
repatriated along with Col. Carne and Anthony Farrar-Hockley. They
were all in the same Gloucestershire Regiment.
"Though minor in scale, the battle's ferocity caught the imagination
of the world", especially the fate of the 1st Battalion, The
Gloucestershire Regiment, which was outnumbered and eventually
surrounded by Chinese forces on Hill 235, a feature that became known
as Gloster Hill. The stand of the Gloucestershire battalion, together
with other actions of the 29th Brigade in the Battle of the Imjin
River, has become an important part of British military history and
tradition.
Back on track, we were here during Viet Nam. David was offered a
great job in San Antonio, Texas, but I didn't like the idea of our son
growing up and the VN war still going and he would be drafted. I
preferred to stay here and it was an excellent decision.
So Trump wouldn't like my uncle either :)
Interesting story, LB. I knew you were in Tokyo after the war as
part of the rebuilding . . . as a young girl, I realise, but your family
were there working on the restoration. I recall you telling the story
of the US MPs trying to exercise authority over non-US personnel!

Korea and Vietnam were both unnecessary and a mess, but that's the
way humanity behaves . . . we are a war-like species and we are at the
top of the food chain for now, so perhaps war is an evil necessity for
our survival. Who knows?

If you moved to Texas, you'd have despised the mentality there. I
see another 26 got shot yesterday by some fool who got himself an
assault rifle by ticking the "Nothing wrong with me" box on the form
when he bought it. That's nice. The NRA have managed to make
background checks voluntary and self-reporting. A really efficient way
of ensuring crazy people get their hands on firearms. It's a good thing
we have the NRA to guarantee that 90% of the US public's feelings on gun
control are ignored so the 10% who like mass shootings get their CNN fix
watching the carnage every few months!

Already the "leader" of the "free" world has blessed the event by
saying it had nothing to do with guns and it was a mental health issue .
. . I think he got the idea of it being a mental health issue whilst
combing his orange hair and looking in the mirror.
--
HRM Resident
l***@fl.it
2017-11-06 14:15:22 UTC
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On Mon, 6 Nov 2017 08:43:05 -0400, HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
Post by l***@fl.it
On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 11:33:07 -0400, HRM Resident
Post by l***@fl.it
Post by axemen99
Post by l***@fl.it
Richard has same addy, Marilyn I'm not so sure, I used to be Eastlink
but dumped them, OT is dead I think, Brian S. I don't know. RW moved
but maybe has the same addy.
OT, bless his interesting posts.
Will be in HK in December.
ooh nice! Pat the ground for me and tell it I still remember and love
it :)
Interesting story, LB. I knew you were in Tokyo after the war as
part of the rebuilding . . . as a young girl, I realise, but your family
were there working on the restoration. I recall you telling the story
of the US MPs trying to exercise authority over non-US personnel!
Yes, so early in life I learned to detest MPs :)
Post by HRM Resident
Korea and Vietnam were both unnecessary and a mess, but that's the
way humanity behaves . . . we are a war-like species and we are at the
top of the food chain for now, so perhaps war is an evil necessity for
our survival. Who knows?
If you moved to Texas, you'd have despised the mentality there. I
see another 26 got shot yesterday by some fool who got himself an
assault rifle by ticking the "Nothing wrong with me" box on the form
when he bought it. That's nice. The NRA have managed to make
background checks voluntary and self-reporting. A really efficient way
of ensuring crazy people get their hands on firearms. It's a good thing
we have the NRA to guarantee that 90% of the US public's feelings on gun
control are ignored so the 10% who like mass shootings get their CNN fix
watching the carnage every few months!
Already the "leader" of the "free" world has blessed the event by
saying it had nothing to do with guns and it was a mental health issue .
. . I think he got the idea of it being a mental health issue whilst
combing his orange hair and looking in the mirror.
I thought it made him look more and more like a ventriloquists dummy,
this time the mouth piece for the NRA!!
HRM Resident
2017-11-06 14:43:12 UTC
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Post by l***@fl.it
On Mon, 6 Nov 2017 08:43:05 -0400, HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
Post by l***@fl.it
On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 11:33:07 -0400, HRM Resident
Post by l***@fl.it
Post by axemen99
Post by l***@fl.it
Richard has same addy, Marilyn I'm not so sure, I used to be Eastlink
but dumped them, OT is dead I think, Brian S. I don't know. RW moved
but maybe has the same addy.
OT, bless his interesting posts.
Will be in HK in December.
ooh nice! Pat the ground for me and tell it I still remember and love
it :)
Interesting story, LB. I knew you were in Tokyo after the war as
part of the rebuilding . . . as a young girl, I realise, but your family
were there working on the restoration. I recall you telling the story
of the US MPs trying to exercise authority over non-US personnel!
Yes, so early in life I learned to detest MPs :)
Post by HRM Resident
Korea and Vietnam were both unnecessary and a mess, but that's the
way humanity behaves . . . we are a war-like species and we are at the
top of the food chain for now, so perhaps war is an evil necessity for
our survival. Who knows?
If you moved to Texas, you'd have despised the mentality there. I
see another 26 got shot yesterday by some fool who got himself an
assault rifle by ticking the "Nothing wrong with me" box on the form
when he bought it. That's nice. The NRA have managed to make
background checks voluntary and self-reporting. A really efficient way
of ensuring crazy people get their hands on firearms. It's a good thing
we have the NRA to guarantee that 90% of the US public's feelings on gun
control are ignored so the 10% who like mass shootings get their CNN fix
watching the carnage every few months!
Already the "leader" of the "free" world has blessed the event by
saying it had nothing to do with guns and it was a mental health issue .
. . I think he got the idea of it being a mental health issue whilst
combing his orange hair and looking in the mirror.
I thought it made him look more and more like a ventriloquists dummy,
this time the mouth piece for the NRA!!
George H W Bush, at 93 years old, summed it up in one phrase, "He's
a blowhard." (He then said he voted for Hillary Clinton.)

Trump isn't anyone's ventriloquists dummy. He says whatever comes
to his mind if he thinks it will make people like him. That's all he
cares about. A very shallow and little man.

He huffs and puffs, but what has he done in the last year except
talk and try to create hate and division at every chance? That's why
his approval ratings are the lowest in recorded history, and why his
disapproval ratings are the highest in recorded history.

<http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/05/politics/wapo-abc-poll-nov-5/index.html>

However, because the above tells the truth and makes him look bad,
that poll has to be declared "Fake News." I'm becoming convinced the US
and the world is getting bored with his twitter nonsense and silly
speeches patting himself on the back. The mid-terms in 2018 will tell
the truth, although the blowhard will then say they are rigged when the
Republicans who supported him are defeated.

He really is becoming boring and tiresome . . .
--
HRM Resident
l***@fl.it
2017-11-06 15:02:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 6 Nov 2017 10:43:12 -0400, HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
Post by l***@fl.it
I thought it made him look more and more like a ventriloquists dummy,
this time the mouth piece for the NRA!!
George H W Bush, at 93 years old, summed it up in one phrase, "He's
a blowhard." (He then said he voted for Hillary Clinton.)
I always liked him and never understood how he created GWB - there
must have been times during the Baby Bushs presidency that senior
cringed.
Post by HRM Resident
Trump isn't anyone's ventriloquists dummy. He says whatever comes
to his mind if he thinks it will make people like him. That's all he
cares about. A very shallow and little man.
It was so close to the NRA 'It's not guns that kill people, it's
people' I thought he was paying lip service :)
Post by HRM Resident
He huffs and puffs, but what has he done in the last year except
talk and try to create hate and division at every chance? That's why
his approval ratings are the lowest in recorded history, and why his
disapproval ratings are the highest in recorded history.
<http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/05/politics/wapo-abc-poll-nov-5/index.html>
Very interesting but remember the election was really more than close
so we will need to see higher numbers disagreeing to tell us the
USians comprehend what they have done.
Post by HRM Resident
However, because the above tells the truth and makes him look bad,
that poll has to be declared "Fake News." I'm becoming convinced the US
and the world is getting bored with his twitter nonsense and silly
speeches patting himself on the back. The mid-terms in 2018 will tell
the truth, although the blowhard will then say they are rigged when the
Republicans who supported him are defeated.
He really is becoming boring and tiresome . . .
I see he also said AGAIN when talking of the Russian interference
issue, why weren't they concentrating on Hillary Clinton. He is
obviously scared shitless of Hillary :)
HRM Resident
2017-11-06 15:38:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by l***@fl.it
On Mon, 6 Nov 2017 10:43:12 -0400, HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
Post by l***@fl.it
I thought it made him look more and more like a ventriloquists dummy,
this time the mouth piece for the NRA!!
George H W Bush, at 93 years old, summed it up in one phrase, "He's
a blowhard." (He then said he voted for Hillary Clinton.)
I always liked him and never understood how he created GWB - there
must have been times during the Baby Bushs presidency that senior
cringed.
Post by HRM Resident
Trump isn't anyone's ventriloquists dummy. He says whatever comes
to his mind if he thinks it will make people like him. That's all he
cares about. A very shallow and little man.
It was so close to the NRA 'It's not guns that kill people, it's
people' I thought he was paying lip service :)
Post by HRM Resident
He huffs and puffs, but what has he done in the last year except
talk and try to create hate and division at every chance? That's why
his approval ratings are the lowest in recorded history, and why his
disapproval ratings are the highest in recorded history.
<http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/05/politics/wapo-abc-poll-nov-5/index.html>
Very interesting but remember the election was really more than close
so we will need to see higher numbers disagreeing to tell us the
USians comprehend what they have done.
Post by HRM Resident
However, because the above tells the truth and makes him look bad,
that poll has to be declared "Fake News." I'm becoming convinced the US
and the world is getting bored with his twitter nonsense and silly
speeches patting himself on the back. The mid-terms in 2018 will tell
the truth, although the blowhard will then say they are rigged when the
Republicans who supported him are defeated.
He really is becoming boring and tiresome . . .
I see he also said AGAIN when talking of the Russian interference
issue, why weren't they concentrating on Hillary Clinton. He is
obviously scared shitless of Hillary :)
He's in way over his head, and down deep he knows it. You can only
yell "Crooked Hillary" so much and people tune it out. I find it hard
to believe the Yanks will make the same mistake twice . . . although Don
wants to meet with Vlad in a few days to cook up some fake stuff to
influence Western democracy again.

Don has picked the number one prick to help him . . . Vlad's a
creative man! Wait until he dips a bit deeper into his old KGB bag of
dirty tricks. You never know what he'll dream up. Don will do what
he's told, because Vlad'll promise him "You're going to WIN!" Don
doesn't care if it literally destroys the US . . . as long as he can
yell "rigged, fake news, Crooked Hillory, etc" and most importantly, "I
am going to win!"

I'd like to see them all (Congress and Trump) run on their record
for the past year or so . . . you know, repeal Obamacare, change the tax
code, build a hate wall, create jobs in the 1800's era coal sector, rip
up trade and environmental agreements that benefit his own country, etc.
How's that all coming along for the 30% or so that still think he's sane?
--
HRM Resident
Mike Small
2017-11-06 18:22:48 UTC
Reply
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HRM Resident <***@gmail.com> writes:
...
...
Post by HRM Resident
Post by l***@fl.it
Post by HRM Resident
If you moved to Texas, you'd have despised the mentality there. I
see another 26 got shot yesterday by some fool who got himself an
assault rifle by ticking the "Nothing wrong with me" box on the form
when he bought it. That's nice. The NRA have managed to make
background checks voluntary and self-reporting. A really efficient way
of ensuring crazy people get their hands on firearms. It's a good thing
we have the NRA to guarantee that 90% of the US public's feelings on gun
control are ignored so the 10% who like mass shootings get their CNN fix
watching the carnage every few months!
Already the "leader" of the "free" world has blessed the event by
saying it had nothing to do with guns and it was a mental health issue .
. . I think he got the idea of it being a mental health issue whilst
combing his orange hair and looking in the mirror.
I thought it made him look more and more like a ventriloquists dummy,
this time the mouth piece for the NRA!!
George H W Bush, at 93 years old, summed it up in one phrase,
"He's a blowhard." (He then said he voted for Hillary Clinton.)
Trump isn't anyone's ventriloquists dummy. He says whatever comes
to his mind if he thinks it will make people like him. That's all he
cares about. A very shallow and little man.
He huffs and puffs, but what has he done in the last year except
talk and try to create hate and division at every chance? That's why
his approval ratings are the lowest in recorded history, and why his
disapproval ratings are the highest in recorded history.
<http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/05/politics/wapo-abc-poll-nov-5/index.html>
However, because the above tells the truth and makes him look bad,
that poll has to be declared "Fake News." I'm becoming convinced the
US and the world is getting bored with his twitter nonsense and silly
speeches patting himself on the back. The mid-terms in 2018 will tell
the truth, although the blowhard will then say they are rigged when
the Republicans who supported him are defeated.
Not so sure these will go that well even if Trump's polling in the low
20s by then. The list of senate seats up for grabs don't give the
Democrats a lot to pick up, so the senate may not actually flip, or if
it does it won't be by much.

The house I haven't read any recent predictions about. A guy at work who
I guess has been paying some attention, at least to fivethirtyeight.com,
tells me it could flip. Last time I read about it it sounded problematic
because of the amount of gerrymandering for house districts, which these
days tends to favour Republican candidates. But you'd hope at least the
house would go Democrat. Then it would be interesting to see what
they'll feel they need before starting impeachment hearings.

I can't get any of the graphics past the firefox extensions I use, but
this article gets into the current state of gerrymandering:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/03/upshot/how-the-new-math-of-gerrymandering-works-supreme-court.html?action=click&contentCollection=The%20Upshot&module=RelatedCoverage&region=Marginalia&pgtype=article

But I would guess there's not a lot of point predicting the house
elections until we see if the new tax "reforms" pass and how people
react to that or whatever other major events may happen between then and
now.
--
Mike Small
***@sdf.org
l***@fl.it
2017-11-07 14:02:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mike Small
...
...
Post by HRM Resident
Post by l***@fl.it
Post by HRM Resident
If you moved to Texas, you'd have despised the mentality there. I
see another 26 got shot yesterday by some fool who got himself an
assault rifle by ticking the "Nothing wrong with me" box on the form
when he bought it. That's nice. The NRA have managed to make
background checks voluntary and self-reporting. A really efficient way
of ensuring crazy people get their hands on firearms. It's a good thing
we have the NRA to guarantee that 90% of the US public's feelings on gun
control are ignored so the 10% who like mass shootings get their CNN fix
watching the carnage every few months!
Already the "leader" of the "free" world has blessed the event by
saying it had nothing to do with guns and it was a mental health issue .
. . I think he got the idea of it being a mental health issue whilst
combing his orange hair and looking in the mirror.
I thought it made him look more and more like a ventriloquists dummy,
this time the mouth piece for the NRA!!
George H W Bush, at 93 years old, summed it up in one phrase,
"He's a blowhard." (He then said he voted for Hillary Clinton.)
Trump isn't anyone's ventriloquists dummy. He says whatever comes
to his mind if he thinks it will make people like him. That's all he
cares about. A very shallow and little man.
He huffs and puffs, but what has he done in the last year except
talk and try to create hate and division at every chance? That's why
his approval ratings are the lowest in recorded history, and why his
disapproval ratings are the highest in recorded history.
<http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/05/politics/wapo-abc-poll-nov-5/index.html>
However, because the above tells the truth and makes him look bad,
that poll has to be declared "Fake News." I'm becoming convinced the
US and the world is getting bored with his twitter nonsense and silly
speeches patting himself on the back. The mid-terms in 2018 will tell
the truth, although the blowhard will then say they are rigged when
the Republicans who supported him are defeated.
Not so sure these will go that well even if Trump's polling in the low
20s by then. The list of senate seats up for grabs don't give the
Democrats a lot to pick up, so the senate may not actually flip, or if
it does it won't be by much.
The house I haven't read any recent predictions about. A guy at work who
I guess has been paying some attention, at least to fivethirtyeight.com,
tells me it could flip. Last time I read about it it sounded problematic
because of the amount of gerrymandering for house districts, which these
days tends to favour Republican candidates. But you'd hope at least the
house would go Democrat. Then it would be interesting to see what
they'll feel they need before starting impeachment hearings.
I can't get any of the graphics past the firefox extensions I use, but
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/03/upshot/how-the-new-math-of-gerrymandering-works-supreme-court.html?action=click&contentCollection=The%20Upshot&module=RelatedCoverage&region=Marginalia&pgtype=article
But I would guess there's not a lot of point predicting the house
elections until we see if the new tax "reforms" pass and how people
react to that or whatever other major events may happen between then and
now.
Perhaps it's just a question of 'hoping' Trump is in trouble, as much
as anything else. As a woman, I feel enraged when I see women acting
proTrump, arggggh :(
HRM Resident
2017-11-08 14:11:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by l***@fl.it
snip<
Perhaps it's just a question of 'hoping' Trump is in trouble, as much
as anything else. As a woman, I feel enraged when I see women acting
proTrump, arggggh :(
Looks at the state wide and mayoralty elections in the US last
night. An overwhelming victory for the Democrats on all fronts, a kick
in the nuts for Trump and a harbinger of a bigger kick in the nuts for
Republicans in Congress come the mid-terms of 2018.

They say time heals all wounds . . . well time also wounds all
heels as Don is finding out. If only he'd shut his big mouth and kept
off twitter, he might have accomplished something. Make no mistake
about it . . . this will embolden Congressional Republicans to put a
stop to Trump's nonsense. A few of them were still thinking they could
ride his coattails to victory next year. Last night's resounding
victory by the Democrats will make them think twice about doing anything
Don wants . . . he just made it a year! Life's good.
--
HRM Resident
l***@fl.it
2017-11-08 17:02:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 8 Nov 2017 10:11:09 -0400, HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
Post by l***@fl.it
snip<
Perhaps it's just a question of 'hoping' Trump is in trouble, as much
as anything else. As a woman, I feel enraged when I see women acting
proTrump, arggggh :(
Looks at the state wide and mayoralty elections in the US last
night. An overwhelming victory for the Democrats on all fronts, a kick
in the nuts for Trump and a harbinger of a bigger kick in the nuts for
Republicans in Congress come the mid-terms of 2018.
They say time heals all wounds . . . well time also wounds all
heels as Don is finding out. If only he'd shut his big mouth and kept
off twitter, he might have accomplished something. Make no mistake
about it . . . this will embolden Congressional Republicans to put a
stop to Trump's nonsense. A few of them were still thinking they could
ride his coattails to victory next year. Last night's resounding
victory by the Democrats will make them think twice about doing anything
Don wants . . . he just made it a year! Life's good.
I have always voted (except one time when David wouldn't let me out of
the house to go and vote I had such bad flu) my grandmother was a
Suffragette and she bashed it into my head that a woman must ALWAYS
vote!!! I think last nights election result shows many people who
didn't bother to vote a year ago and woke up to find they had
basically elected a Trump :-® Talk about being punished for not
voting :)
HRM Resident
2017-11-08 17:33:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by l***@fl.it
On Wed, 8 Nov 2017 10:11:09 -0400, HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
Post by l***@fl.it
snip<
Perhaps it's just a question of 'hoping' Trump is in trouble, as much
as anything else. As a woman, I feel enraged when I see women acting
proTrump, arggggh :(
Looks at the state wide and mayoralty elections in the US last
night. An overwhelming victory for the Democrats on all fronts, a kick
in the nuts for Trump and a harbinger of a bigger kick in the nuts for
Republicans in Congress come the mid-terms of 2018.
They say time heals all wounds . . . well time also wounds all
heels as Don is finding out. If only he'd shut his big mouth and kept
off twitter, he might have accomplished something. Make no mistake
about it . . . this will embolden Congressional Republicans to put a
stop to Trump's nonsense. A few of them were still thinking they could
ride his coattails to victory next year. Last night's resounding
victory by the Democrats will make them think twice about doing anything
Don wants . . . he just made it a year! Life's good.
I have always voted (except one time when David wouldn't let me out of
the house to go and vote I had such bad flu) my grandmother was a
Suffragette and she bashed it into my head that a woman must ALWAYS
vote!!! I think last nights election result shows many people who
didn't bother to vote a year ago and woke up to find they had
basically elected a Trump :-® Talk about being punished for not
voting :)
I think you nailed it. Buyer's remorse? Whoops? Whatever . . .
it'll smarten up those who say "my vote doesn't matter" and also those
who just vote without thinking. I don't know your position on Brexit,
but I'm convinced many British voted to leave the EU thinking it would
never happen and they were just "sending a message."

Seems to me many of these "message senders" woke up the next
morning and found out their silly protest vote got them something they
really didn't want. Same as when we went through the foolishness with
Quebec . . . many of the voters didn't think ahead. We *almost* lost
Canada as we know it.

The Yanks may have already lost their country's great name and
influence in the world . . . something not easily recovered, if possible
at all.

As for Britain, well, they listened to people lie Boris Johnston .
. . a really bright bulb . . .

Anyhow, too bad if you are a US Republican. I actually feel some
of them are sensible . . . John MacCain, Orin Hatch, and a few others
seem to be OK. Others like Jeff Sessions ought to be sent to Gitmo.

What's wrong with moderation . . . middle of the road,
co-operation? Who knows? Seems we have to all be 100% polarized
against each other and learn hate as our first emotion these days . . .
--
HRM Resident
l***@fl.it
2017-11-08 20:58:13 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
On Wed, 8 Nov 2017 13:33:48 -0400, HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
Post by l***@fl.it
On Wed, 8 Nov 2017 10:11:09 -0400, HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
Post by l***@fl.it
snip<
Perhaps it's just a question of 'hoping' Trump is in trouble, as much
as anything else. As a woman, I feel enraged when I see women acting
proTrump, arggggh :(
Looks at the state wide and mayoralty elections in the US last
night. An overwhelming victory for the Democrats on all fronts, a kick
in the nuts for Trump and a harbinger of a bigger kick in the nuts for
Republicans in Congress come the mid-terms of 2018.
They say time heals all wounds . . . well time also wounds all
heels as Don is finding out. If only he'd shut his big mouth and kept
off twitter, he might have accomplished something. Make no mistake
about it . . . this will embolden Congressional Republicans to put a
stop to Trump's nonsense. A few of them were still thinking they could
ride his coattails to victory next year. Last night's resounding
victory by the Democrats will make them think twice about doing anything
Don wants . . . he just made it a year! Life's good.
I have always voted (except one time when David wouldn't let me out of
the house to go and vote I had such bad flu) my grandmother was a
Suffragette and she bashed it into my head that a woman must ALWAYS
vote!!! I think last nights election result shows many people who
didn't bother to vote a year ago and woke up to find they had
basically elected a Trump :-® Talk about being punished for not
voting :)
I think you nailed it. Buyer's remorse? Whoops? Whatever . . .
it'll smarten up those who say "my vote doesn't matter" and also those
who just vote without thinking. I don't know your position on Brexit,
but I'm convinced many British voted to leave the EU thinking it would
never happen and they were just "sending a message."
It was mainly the older people, they thought it would take the UK back
to what it was like after WWII - they see now. I get that first hand
from a friend whose parents insisted on voting Leave and now feel
desperate.
Post by HRM Resident
Seems to me many of these "message senders" woke up the next
morning and found out their silly protest vote got them something they
really didn't want. Same as when we went through the foolishness with
Quebec . . . many of the voters didn't think ahead. We *almost* lost
Canada as we know it.
The Yanks may have already lost their country's great name and
influence in the world . . . something not easily recovered, if possible
at all.
As for Britain, well, they listened to people lie Boris Johnston .
. . a really bright bulb . . .
Anyhow, too bad if you are a US Republican. I actually feel some
of them are sensible . . . John MacCain, Orin Hatch, and a few others
seem to be OK. Others like Jeff Sessions ought to be sent to Gitmo.
What's wrong with moderation . . . middle of the road,
co-operation? Who knows? Seems we have to all be 100% polarized
against each other and learn hate as our first emotion these days . . .
Mike Spencer
2017-11-08 19:26:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by l***@fl.it
I think last nights election result shows many people who
didn't bother to vote a year ago and woke up to find they had
basically elected a Trump :-® Talk about being punished for not
voting :)
Based on remarks by one of my correspondents on a mailing list -- a
retired Canadian economist -- I infer that there were a lot of people
who were (quite reasonably) incensed by the "swamp" in DC and were
able to overlook the Great Bloviator's ignorance, stupidity and mental
pathology in support of his proposal to drain it. There has to be a
certain kind of stupidity and of ignorance of human behaviour behind
such overlooking for it to be possible but nobody ever said the US
electorate was steeped in wisdom.

Personally, I think there are, or at least have been up to recently,
enough implicit "checks and balances" in having a heterogeneous
political and bureaucratic ecology in DC that the worst bad guys and
bad coalitions, conspiracies and corruptions all restrain each other
by competition and are also restrained by the number of straigh-arrow
players, however few the latter.

Now that ignorance, stupidity and mental pathology are the defining
benchmark of normalcy, all those bad guys and collations of bad guys
and corrupt weasels see a power vacuum into which they believe they can
move strategically if they just, yew know, go for it right now.
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Mike Small
2017-11-08 19:31:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by l***@fl.it
On Wed, 8 Nov 2017 10:11:09 -0400, HRM Resident
...
Post by l***@fl.it
Post by HRM Resident
They say time heals all wounds . . . well time also wounds all
heels as Don is finding out. If only he'd shut his big mouth and kept
off twitter, he might have accomplished something. Make no mistake
about it . . . this will embolden Congressional Republicans to put a
stop to Trump's nonsense. A few of them were still thinking they could
ride his coattails to victory next year. Last night's resounding
victory by the Democrats will make them think twice about doing anything
Don wants . . . he just made it a year! Life's good.
I have always voted (except one time when David wouldn't let me out of
the house to go and vote I had such bad flu) my grandmother was a
Suffragette and she bashed it into my head that a woman must ALWAYS
vote!!! I think last nights election result shows many people who
didn't bother to vote a year ago and woke up to find they had
basically elected a Trump :-® Talk about being punished for not
voting :)
I've been ineligible to vote anywhere for some time. To be honest my
feelings about trying for U.S. citizenship were so mixed, and the way
the system works combined with how secure most Democrat seats and the
especially the electoral college votes are in Massachusetts, I was
almost ready to let that go. But the day after Trump was elected then I
decided that if my life is here (and so it is now) then not being a
citizen only makes me like some kind of multi-decade tourist. Even if
it's just to make Elizabeth Warren and Ed Markey that much more
comfortable in their 2018 wins I should make sure I can vote.
--
Mike Small
***@sdf.org
l***@fl.it
2017-11-08 21:01:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mike Small
Post by l***@fl.it
On Wed, 8 Nov 2017 10:11:09 -0400, HRM Resident
...
Post by l***@fl.it
Post by HRM Resident
They say time heals all wounds . . . well time also wounds all
heels as Don is finding out. If only he'd shut his big mouth and kept
off twitter, he might have accomplished something. Make no mistake
about it . . . this will embolden Congressional Republicans to put a
stop to Trump's nonsense. A few of them were still thinking they could
ride his coattails to victory next year. Last night's resounding
victory by the Democrats will make them think twice about doing anything
Don wants . . . he just made it a year! Life's good.
I have always voted (except one time when David wouldn't let me out of
the house to go and vote I had such bad flu) my grandmother was a
Suffragette and she bashed it into my head that a woman must ALWAYS
vote!!! I think last nights election result shows many people who
didn't bother to vote a year ago and woke up to find they had
basically elected a Trump :-® Talk about being punished for not
voting :)
I've been ineligible to vote anywhere for some time. To be honest my
feelings about trying for U.S. citizenship were so mixed, and the way
the system works combined with how secure most Democrat seats and the
especially the electoral college votes are in Massachusetts, I was
almost ready to let that go. But the day after Trump was elected then I
decided that if my life is here (and so it is now) then not being a
citizen only makes me like some kind of multi-decade tourist. Even if
it's just to make Elizabeth Warren and Ed Markey that much more
comfortable in their 2018 wins I should make sure I can vote.
Good on you! You can always get your Canadian Citizenship back later,
after all , if Conrad Black could... :)
Mike Small
2017-11-09 15:56:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
***@fl.it writes:
...
Post by l***@fl.it
Post by Mike Small
I've been ineligible to vote anywhere for some time. To be honest my
feelings about trying for U.S. citizenship were so mixed, and the way
the system works combined with how secure most Democrat seats and the
especially the electoral college votes are in Massachusetts, I was
almost ready to let that go. But the day after Trump was elected then I
decided that if my life is here (and so it is now) then not being a
citizen only makes me like some kind of multi-decade tourist. Even if
it's just to make Elizabeth Warren and Ed Markey that much more
comfortable in their 2018 wins I should make sure I can vote.
Good on you! You can always get your Canadian Citizenship back later,
after all , if Conrad Black could... :)
Not even necessary these days. It's confusing because the
U.S. citizenship oath, the oath of allegiance, will have me, "renounce
and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate,
state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject
or citizen..." In fact, at least formally and on paper, I will retain my
Canadian citizenship. Now, IMO the flip side of my thinking it
meaningful and important to be a participating citizen whereever I
happen to be making my life is that I am not in a true sense
(philosophical sense? not meaning to renounce my Cdn citizenship here) a
Canadian citizen so long as I'm not making my life there -- which is why
I think it fair and reasonable that you can't vote once you've been out
five years. But as far as all the bureaucratic rigamarole there's
nothing to do should I move back later to be both morally and legally a
citizen again because I remain legally one (though one without voting
privileges).

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/dual-citizenship-allowed-naturalizing-us-citizens.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_nationality_law#Under_the_current_Act_and_its_amendments
--
Mike Small
***@sdf.org
HRM Resident
2017-11-09 16:29:39 UTC
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Post by Mike Small
...
Post by l***@fl.it
Post by Mike Small
I've been ineligible to vote anywhere for some time. To be honest my
feelings about trying for U.S. citizenship were so mixed, and the way
the system works combined with how secure most Democrat seats and the
especially the electoral college votes are in Massachusetts, I was
almost ready to let that go. But the day after Trump was elected then I
decided that if my life is here (and so it is now) then not being a
citizen only makes me like some kind of multi-decade tourist. Even if
it's just to make Elizabeth Warren and Ed Markey that much more
comfortable in their 2018 wins I should make sure I can vote.
Good on you! You can always get your Canadian Citizenship back later,
after all , if Conrad Black could... :)
Not even necessary these days. It's confusing because the
U.S. citizenship oath, the oath of allegiance, will have me, "renounce
and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate,
state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject
or citizen..." In fact, at least formally and on paper, I will retain my
Canadian citizenship. Now, IMO the flip side of my thinking it
meaningful and important to be a participating citizen whereever I
happen to be making my life is that I am not in a true sense
(philosophical sense? not meaning to renounce my Cdn citizenship here) a
Canadian citizen so long as I'm not making my life there -- which is why
I think it fair and reasonable that you can't vote once you've been out
five years. But as far as all the bureaucratic rigamarole there's
nothing to do should I move back later to be both morally and legally a
citizen again because I remain legally one (though one without voting
privileges).
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/dual-citizenship-allowed-naturalizing-us-citizens.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_nationality_law#Under_the_current_Act_and_its_amendments
Sounds like you have it figured out correctly. LB's reference to
Conrad Black (the number 1 weasel Canada ever produced) was different in
that Connie renounced his Canadian Citizenship because he wanted to be
appointed to the British House of Lords . . . equivalent to being
appointed to the Senate in Canada.

Connie spent a lot of years skewering Jean Chrétien in his
newspaper articles . . . which was Connie's right seeing as we have
freedom of speech in Canada AND Connie owned most of the newspapers in
Canada at the time. He took great joy at roasting Chrétien. When he
was up for consideration by the Queen to be made a Lord in the UK, there
was one little technicality Connie overlooked . . . the Queen
would/could not appoint a Canadian to the British House of Lords without
the written permission of the Prime Minister. Chrétien wouldn't do it.
I'm going out on a limb here, but I suspect most PMs wouldn't do any
favours for people who spent a decade roasting them in hateful
editorials. Just my thoughts.

So Connie was in a pickle. The only way he could become a Lord was
to renounce his Canadian citizenship . . . which he did and he got his
Lordship in London. For some reason he then decided to go to the USA
and commit a felony that got him 6 years in jail. Upon release, he was
ordered deported within 24 hours . . . poor Connie wasn't a US citizen.
No convicted foreign felons allowed in the good old US of A, you see.

He was supposed to go back to his home country, England . . .
seeing as he only had a British Passport. However, he had a house in
Toronto and he wanted so badly to return there. Thankfully he was a big
supporter of the Harper government and Minister Jason Kenny made a
"ministerial exception." Connie got a 1-year temporary permit to live
here . . . but that was quite a number of years ago and Connie is still
here. I think Jason or one of his pals quietly made it permanent. So
you gotta follow the rules or be a big contributor to the government of
the day to get immigration favours, it appears.

I'd advise you to follow the path your are using and not look to
Connie's way . . . seeing as they did strip him of his Order of Canada
for being a crook.
--
HRM Resident
l***@fl.it
2017-11-09 17:43:57 UTC
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On Thu, 9 Nov 2017 12:29:39 -0400, HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
Post by Mike Small
...
Post by l***@fl.it
Post by Mike Small
I've been ineligible to vote anywhere for some time. To be honest my
feelings about trying for U.S. citizenship were so mixed, and the way
the system works combined with how secure most Democrat seats and the
especially the electoral college votes are in Massachusetts, I was
almost ready to let that go. But the day after Trump was elected then I
decided that if my life is here (and so it is now) then not being a
citizen only makes me like some kind of multi-decade tourist. Even if
it's just to make Elizabeth Warren and Ed Markey that much more
comfortable in their 2018 wins I should make sure I can vote.
Good on you! You can always get your Canadian Citizenship back later,
after all , if Conrad Black could... :)
Not even necessary these days. It's confusing because the
U.S. citizenship oath, the oath of allegiance, will have me, "renounce
and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate,
state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject
or citizen..." In fact, at least formally and on paper, I will retain my
Canadian citizenship. Now, IMO the flip side of my thinking it
meaningful and important to be a participating citizen whereever I
happen to be making my life is that I am not in a true sense
(philosophical sense? not meaning to renounce my Cdn citizenship here) a
Canadian citizen so long as I'm not making my life there -- which is why
I think it fair and reasonable that you can't vote once you've been out
five years. But as far as all the bureaucratic rigamarole there's
nothing to do should I move back later to be both morally and legally a
citizen again because I remain legally one (though one without voting
privileges).
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/dual-citizenship-allowed-naturalizing-us-citizens.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_nationality_law#Under_the_current_Act_and_its_amendments
Sounds like you have it figured out correctly. LB's reference to
Conrad Black (the number 1 weasel Canada ever produced) was different in
that Connie renounced his Canadian Citizenship because he wanted to be
appointed to the British House of Lords . . . equivalent to being
appointed to the Senate in Canada.
Connie spent a lot of years skewering Jean Chrétien in his
newspaper articles . . . which was Connie's right seeing as we have
freedom of speech in Canada AND Connie owned most of the newspapers in
Canada at the time. He took great joy at roasting Chrétien. When he
was up for consideration by the Queen to be made a Lord in the UK, there
was one little technicality Connie overlooked . . . the Queen
would/could not appoint a Canadian to the British House of Lords without
the written permission of the Prime Minister. Chrétien wouldn't do it.
I'm going out on a limb here, but I suspect most PMs wouldn't do any
favours for people who spent a decade roasting them in hateful
editorials. Just my thoughts.
So Connie was in a pickle. The only way he could become a Lord was
to renounce his Canadian citizenship . . . which he did and he got his
Lordship in London. For some reason he then decided to go to the USA
and commit a felony that got him 6 years in jail. Upon release, he was
ordered deported within 24 hours . . . poor Connie wasn't a US citizen.
No convicted foreign felons allowed in the good old US of A, you see.
He was supposed to go back to his home country, England . . .
seeing as he only had a British Passport. However, he had a house in
Toronto and he wanted so badly to return there. Thankfully he was a big
supporter of the Harper government and Minister Jason Kenny made a
"ministerial exception." Connie got a 1-year temporary permit to live
here . . . but that was quite a number of years ago and Connie is still
here. I think Jason or one of his pals quietly made it permanent. So
you gotta follow the rules or be a big contributor to the government of
the day to get immigration favours, it appears.
I'd advise you to follow the path your are using and not look to
Connie's way . . . seeing as they did strip him of his Order of Canada
for being a crook.
Good summary HRM - did he lose his peerage at the time of the
conviction?
HRM Resident
2017-11-10 14:07:03 UTC
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Post by l***@fl.it
On Thu, 9 Nov 2017 12:29:39 -0400, HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
Post by Mike Small
...
Post by l***@fl.it
Post by Mike Small
I've been ineligible to vote anywhere for some time. To be honest my
feelings about trying for U.S. citizenship were so mixed, and the way
the system works combined with how secure most Democrat seats and the
especially the electoral college votes are in Massachusetts, I was
almost ready to let that go. But the day after Trump was elected then I
decided that if my life is here (and so it is now) then not being a
citizen only makes me like some kind of multi-decade tourist. Even if
it's just to make Elizabeth Warren and Ed Markey that much more
comfortable in their 2018 wins I should make sure I can vote.
Good on you! You can always get your Canadian Citizenship back later,
after all , if Conrad Black could... :)
Not even necessary these days. It's confusing because the
U.S. citizenship oath, the oath of allegiance, will have me, "renounce
and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate,
state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject
or citizen..." In fact, at least formally and on paper, I will retain my
Canadian citizenship. Now, IMO the flip side of my thinking it
meaningful and important to be a participating citizen whereever I
happen to be making my life is that I am not in a true sense
(philosophical sense? not meaning to renounce my Cdn citizenship here) a
Canadian citizen so long as I'm not making my life there -- which is why
I think it fair and reasonable that you can't vote once you've been out
five years. But as far as all the bureaucratic rigamarole there's
nothing to do should I move back later to be both morally and legally a
citizen again because I remain legally one (though one without voting
privileges).
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/dual-citizenship-allowed-naturalizing-us-citizens.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_nationality_law#Under_the_current_Act_and_its_amendments
Sounds like you have it figured out correctly. LB's reference to
Conrad Black (the number 1 weasel Canada ever produced) was different in
that Connie renounced his Canadian Citizenship because he wanted to be
appointed to the British House of Lords . . . equivalent to being
appointed to the Senate in Canada.
Connie spent a lot of years skewering Jean Chrétien in his
newspaper articles . . . which was Connie's right seeing as we have
freedom of speech in Canada AND Connie owned most of the newspapers in
Canada at the time. He took great joy at roasting Chrétien. When he
was up for consideration by the Queen to be made a Lord in the UK, there
was one little technicality Connie overlooked . . . the Queen
would/could not appoint a Canadian to the British House of Lords without
the written permission of the Prime Minister. Chrétien wouldn't do it.
I'm going out on a limb here, but I suspect most PMs wouldn't do any
favours for people who spent a decade roasting them in hateful
editorials. Just my thoughts.
So Connie was in a pickle. The only way he could become a Lord was
to renounce his Canadian citizenship . . . which he did and he got his
Lordship in London. For some reason he then decided to go to the USA
and commit a felony that got him 6 years in jail. Upon release, he was
ordered deported within 24 hours . . . poor Connie wasn't a US citizen.
No convicted foreign felons allowed in the good old US of A, you see.
He was supposed to go back to his home country, England . . .
seeing as he only had a British Passport. However, he had a house in
Toronto and he wanted so badly to return there. Thankfully he was a big
supporter of the Harper government and Minister Jason Kenny made a
"ministerial exception." Connie got a 1-year temporary permit to live
here . . . but that was quite a number of years ago and Connie is still
here. I think Jason or one of his pals quietly made it permanent. So
you gotta follow the rules or be a big contributor to the government of
the day to get immigration favours, it appears.
I'd advise you to follow the path your are using and not look to
Connie's way . . . seeing as they did strip him of his Order of Canada
for being a crook.
Good summary HRM - did he lose his peerage at the time of the
conviction?
Technically, yes . . . or maybe. I found this on the Internet:
"Black sat as a life peer on the Conservative benches until 2007, when
he withdrew from the conservative group of peers following his
conviction in the United States. He is currently a non-affiliated peer.
In an interview with BBC reporter Jeremy Paxman in 2012, Black stated
that he could return to the House of Lords as a voting member. Comparing
himself to Nelson Mandela, Black said a criminal conviction does not
prohibit him from sitting, since the House of Lords has no restriction
on such a case. He has been on Leave of Absence from the House of Lords
since June 2012"

As repulsive as Black is, he has the gift of gab and is an
excellent writer. He should have been a lawyer as he can (and does)
make compelling arguments about anything he fancies. He might have a
wedge here in that the conviction was not that of a British court . . .
I've heard him use the argument, "Does the British government recognise
courts in the USA? What if I'd been 'convicted' in Afghanistan or
Burma? As far as British law is concerned, I did nothing wrong."

Regarding his arguments above, if he is still a Lord and the
equivalent of Nelson Mandela (his words, not mine), why is he here in
Canada and not in the British House of Lords?
--
HRM Resident
l***@fl.it
2017-11-10 15:22:16 UTC
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On Fri, 10 Nov 2017 10:07:03 -0400, HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
"Black sat as a life peer on the Conservative benches until 2007, when
he withdrew from the conservative group of peers following his
conviction in the United States. He is currently a non-affiliated peer.
In an interview with BBC reporter Jeremy Paxman in 2012, Black stated
that he could return to the House of Lords as a voting member. Comparing
himself to Nelson Mandela, Black said a criminal conviction does not
prohibit him from sitting, since the House of Lords has no restriction
on such a case. He has been on Leave of Absence from the House of Lords
since June 2012"
As repulsive as Black is, he has the gift of gab and is an
excellent writer. He should have been a lawyer as he can (and does)
make compelling arguments about anything he fancies. He might have a
wedge here in that the conviction was not that of a British court . . .
I've heard him use the argument, "Does the British government recognise
courts in the USA? What if I'd been 'convicted' in Afghanistan or
Burma? As far as British law is concerned, I did nothing wrong."
Regarding his arguments above, if he is still a Lord and the
equivalent of Nelson Mandela (his words, not mine), why is he here in
Canada and not in the British House of Lords?
The British are very restless about the Lords, apparently the growing
number of them is becoming just too expensive, Black will have been
paid even though he hasn't been there. They too are talking about an
elected house, or at least eliminating the born to the peerage ones.
HRM Resident
2017-11-10 18:47:57 UTC
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Post by l***@fl.it
On Fri, 10 Nov 2017 10:07:03 -0400, HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
"Black sat as a life peer on the Conservative benches until 2007, when
he withdrew from the conservative group of peers following his
conviction in the United States. He is currently a non-affiliated peer.
In an interview with BBC reporter Jeremy Paxman in 2012, Black stated
that he could return to the House of Lords as a voting member. Comparing
himself to Nelson Mandela, Black said a criminal conviction does not
prohibit him from sitting, since the House of Lords has no restriction
on such a case. He has been on Leave of Absence from the House of Lords
since June 2012"
As repulsive as Black is, he has the gift of gab and is an
excellent writer. He should have been a lawyer as he can (and does)
make compelling arguments about anything he fancies. He might have a
wedge here in that the conviction was not that of a British court . . .
I've heard him use the argument, "Does the British government recognise
courts in the USA? What if I'd been 'convicted' in Afghanistan or
Burma? As far as British law is concerned, I did nothing wrong."
Regarding his arguments above, if he is still a Lord and the
equivalent of Nelson Mandela (his words, not mine), why is he here in
Canada and not in the British House of Lords?
The British are very restless about the Lords, apparently the growing
number of them is becoming just too expensive, Black will have been
paid even though he hasn't been there. They too are talking about an
elected house, or at least eliminating the born to the peerage ones.
He might be getting paid, but he can't seem to handle money well.
He recently sold the family mansion in up-scale Toronto because he
couldn't afford to keep it up . . . word has it that he has some sort of
agreement where he can live out his life in its gatehouse, boathouse or
some such auxiliary building.

Excluding murderers and other violent criminals, from everything
I've heard, Conrad Black is one of the worst weasels our country has
every produced. Why Jason Kenny ever let him back here is beyond me . . .

At least the Governor General had the good sense to revoke his
Order of Canada. He's not a Canadian citizen (because he vehemently
disavowed Canada, revoked his citizenship, and moved to England where he
became a British citizen.) He's a foreigner who is a convicted
criminal. We don't let non-criminal foreigners into Canada just because
they ask . . . there are many foreigners who'd love to move here, but
they can't.

Why are we keeping Conrad Black here? He belongs in England. In
my view, Omar Khadr is a Canadian and more valuable to our country than
Black. I think Connie ought to go back to England and drive a cab in
London. It'd be the first honest money he ever earned.
--
HRM Resident
l***@fl.it
2017-11-10 19:48:12 UTC
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On Fri, 10 Nov 2017 14:47:57 -0400, HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
Post by l***@fl.it
On Fri, 10 Nov 2017 10:07:03 -0400, HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
"Black sat as a life peer on the Conservative benches until 2007, when
he withdrew from the conservative group of peers following his
conviction in the United States. He is currently a non-affiliated peer.
In an interview with BBC reporter Jeremy Paxman in 2012, Black stated
that he could return to the House of Lords as a voting member. Comparing
himself to Nelson Mandela, Black said a criminal conviction does not
prohibit him from sitting, since the House of Lords has no restriction
on such a case. He has been on Leave of Absence from the House of Lords
since June 2012"
As repulsive as Black is, he has the gift of gab and is an
excellent writer. He should have been a lawyer as he can (and does)
make compelling arguments about anything he fancies. He might have a
wedge here in that the conviction was not that of a British court . . .
I've heard him use the argument, "Does the British government recognise
courts in the USA? What if I'd been 'convicted' in Afghanistan or
Burma? As far as British law is concerned, I did nothing wrong."
Regarding his arguments above, if he is still a Lord and the
equivalent of Nelson Mandela (his words, not mine), why is he here in
Canada and not in the British House of Lords?
The British are very restless about the Lords, apparently the growing
number of them is becoming just too expensive, Black will have been
paid even though he hasn't been there. They too are talking about an
elected house, or at least eliminating the born to the peerage ones.
He might be getting paid, but he can't seem to handle money well.
He recently sold the family mansion in up-scale Toronto because he
couldn't afford to keep it up . . . word has it that he has some sort of
agreement where he can live out his life in its gatehouse, boathouse or
some such auxiliary building.
Excluding murderers and other violent criminals, from everything
I've heard, Conrad Black is one of the worst weasels our country has
every produced. Why Jason Kenny ever let him back here is beyond me . . .
At least the Governor General had the good sense to revoke his
Order of Canada. He's not a Canadian citizen (because he vehemently
disavowed Canada, revoked his citizenship, and moved to England where he
became a British citizen.) He's a foreigner who is a convicted
criminal. We don't let non-criminal foreigners into Canada just because
they ask . . . there are many foreigners who'd love to move here, but
they can't.
Why are we keeping Conrad Black here? He belongs in England. In
my view, Omar Khadr is a Canadian and more valuable to our country than
Black. I think Connie ought to go back to England and drive a cab in
London. It'd be the first honest money he ever earned.
Lol tell us how you really feel :) I think I hit a button, though I
am in complete agreement with you. I like Omar Khadr, he was badly
treated by his father, his mother and sister were poisonous but he
didn't really need Harper to turn him over as a teen to Guantanimo.
HRM Resident
2017-11-10 20:19:48 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by l***@fl.it
On Fri, 10 Nov 2017 14:47:57 -0400, HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
Post by l***@fl.it
On Fri, 10 Nov 2017 10:07:03 -0400, HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
"Black sat as a life peer on the Conservative benches until 2007, when
he withdrew from the conservative group of peers following his
conviction in the United States. He is currently a non-affiliated peer.
In an interview with BBC reporter Jeremy Paxman in 2012, Black stated
that he could return to the House of Lords as a voting member. Comparing
himself to Nelson Mandela, Black said a criminal conviction does not
prohibit him from sitting, since the House of Lords has no restriction
on such a case. He has been on Leave of Absence from the House of Lords
since June 2012"
As repulsive as Black is, he has the gift of gab and is an
excellent writer. He should have been a lawyer as he can (and does)
make compelling arguments about anything he fancies. He might have a
wedge here in that the conviction was not that of a British court . . .
I've heard him use the argument, "Does the British government recognise
courts in the USA? What if I'd been 'convicted' in Afghanistan or
Burma? As far as British law is concerned, I did nothing wrong."
Regarding his arguments above, if he is still a Lord and the
equivalent of Nelson Mandela (his words, not mine), why is he here in
Canada and not in the British House of Lords?
The British are very restless about the Lords, apparently the growing
number of them is becoming just too expensive, Black will have been
paid even though he hasn't been there. They too are talking about an
elected house, or at least eliminating the born to the peerage ones.
He might be getting paid, but he can't seem to handle money well.
He recently sold the family mansion in up-scale Toronto because he
couldn't afford to keep it up . . . word has it that he has some sort of
agreement where he can live out his life in its gatehouse, boathouse or
some such auxiliary building.
Excluding murderers and other violent criminals, from everything
I've heard, Conrad Black is one of the worst weasels our country has
every produced. Why Jason Kenny ever let him back here is beyond me . . .
At least the Governor General had the good sense to revoke his
Order of Canada. He's not a Canadian citizen (because he vehemently
disavowed Canada, revoked his citizenship, and moved to England where he
became a British citizen.) He's a foreigner who is a convicted
criminal. We don't let non-criminal foreigners into Canada just because
they ask . . . there are many foreigners who'd love to move here, but
they can't.
Why are we keeping Conrad Black here? He belongs in England. In
my view, Omar Khadr is a Canadian and more valuable to our country than
Black. I think Connie ought to go back to England and drive a cab in
London. It'd be the first honest money he ever earned.
Lol tell us how you really feel :) I think I hit a button, though I
am in complete agreement with you. I like Omar Khadr, he was badly
treated by his father, his mother and sister were poisonous but he
didn't really need Harper to turn him over as a teen to Guantanimo.
That's how I really feel about Conrad Black. His money, family
reputation and loyalty to Stephen Harper got him special favours not
available to other Canadians, or Canadian-wannabes. Why is he here? No
one seems to ever want to answer that.
--
HRM Resident
Mike Small
2017-11-14 05:50:11 UTC
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HRM Resident <***@gmail.com> writes:
...
Post by HRM Resident
Sounds like you have it figured out correctly. LB's reference to
Well, not so much.

I'm still struggling with other parts of the U.S. oath of
allegiance. This part gives me pause... "that I will support and defend
the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all
enemies, foreign and domestic." Generally when the United States has
cast about for domestic enemies it's been times when the country's moral
compass took some odd bounces. I'm not sure how much defending I'd do
against whoever might some day (in the not so distant future?) be
considered that day's Emma Goldman. But perhaps defending the constition
in those times could be interpreted as not going along with the general
sentiment.

More difficult is the promise to bear arms: "that I will bear arms on
behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will
perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States
when required by the law." I can't honestly even make as simple a
statement as Aldous Huxley did when he didn't get citizenship or of
Margaret Doughty in the more recent case where she squeaked
through. There very well could be conditions under which I would bear
arms or contribute to a war effort, conditions I would think ought to
have been adequatly covered by, "that I will support and defend the
Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all
enemies, foreign." But to make such an open ended oath in todays'
context would be an out and out falsehood for anyone who's half awake I
would think. Under what circumstances in the world from now til the end
of my life, with the U.S. being a nuclear power with as much non-nuclear
firepower as the rest of the world combined, would such a law come into
force and what likelihood would I have to feel it right to obey such a
law?

My friends make fun of me for thinking about this at my age, but it's an
oath you're supposed to take without reservation.

Funny, I looked at the Canadian Oath of Citizenship, and I'm not sure I
could swear that one honestly either. Queen Elizabeth seems a nice
enough woman. Prince Charles has some interesting ideas about
architecture and its effects on the values and happiness of today's
youth. Yet even with all that if I'm going to swear allegiance I'd have
to agree with what I've been reading from Thomas Paine, that it ought to
be to a bunch of other people I'm on equal terms with, in abstract terms
a nation not a regent.

Maybe I should have thought more about this when I couldn't find a job
and moved here. I could have picked a country (or Toro... nah) with a
less demanding oath, though I'm guessing all those countries have
languages I'd struggle to learn. Or is it that to join with others in a
country you didn't start out in you have to sacrifice some of your own
values to those of the host? Is that the nature of the beast?
Post by HRM Resident
Conrad Black (the number 1 weasel Canada ever produced) was different
in that Connie renounced his Canadian Citizenship because he wanted to
be appointed to the British House of Lords . . . equivalent to being
appointed to the Senate in Canada.
Connie spent a lot of years skewering Jean Chrétien in his
newspaper articles . . . which was Connie's right seeing as we have
freedom of speech in Canada AND Connie owned most of the newspapers in
Canada at the time. He took great joy at roasting Chrétien. When he
was up for consideration by the Queen to be made a Lord in the UK,
there was one little technicality Connie overlooked . . . the Queen
would/could not appoint a Canadian to the British House of Lords
without the written permission of the Prime Minister. Chrétien
wouldn't do it. I'm going out on a limb here, but I suspect most PMs
wouldn't do any favours for people who spent a decade roasting them in
hateful editorials. Just my thoughts.
Thanks for all this. I've been out of touch and didn't hear any of this
before.

...
--
Mike Small
***@sdf.org
l***@fl.it
2017-11-14 11:54:01 UTC
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Post by Mike Small
...
Post by HRM Resident
Sounds like you have it figured out correctly. LB's reference to
Well, not so much.
I'm still struggling with other parts of the U.S. oath of
allegiance. This part gives me pause... "that I will support and defend
the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all
enemies, foreign and domestic." Generally when the United States has
cast about for domestic enemies it's been times when the country's moral
compass took some odd bounces. I'm not sure how much defending I'd do
against whoever might some day (in the not so distant future?) be
considered that day's Emma Goldman. But perhaps defending the constition
in those times could be interpreted as not going along with the general
sentiment.
More difficult is the promise to bear arms: "that I will bear arms on
behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will
perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States
when required by the law." I can't honestly even make as simple a
statement as Aldous Huxley did when he didn't get citizenship or of
Margaret Doughty in the more recent case where she squeaked
through. There very well could be conditions under which I would bear
arms or contribute to a war effort, conditions I would think ought to
have been adequatly covered by, "that I will support and defend the
Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all
enemies, foreign." But to make such an open ended oath in todays'
context would be an out and out falsehood for anyone who's half awake I
would think. Under what circumstances in the world from now til the end
of my life, with the U.S. being a nuclear power with as much non-nuclear
firepower as the rest of the world combined, would such a law come into
force and what likelihood would I have to feel it right to obey such a
law?
My friends make fun of me for thinking about this at my age, but it's an
oath you're supposed to take without reservation.
Funny, I looked at the Canadian Oath of Citizenship, and I'm not sure I
could swear that one honestly either. Queen Elizabeth seems a nice
enough woman. Prince Charles has some interesting ideas about
architecture and its effects on the values and happiness of today's
youth. Yet even with all that if I'm going to swear allegiance I'd have
to agree with what I've been reading from Thomas Paine, that it ought to
be to a bunch of other people I'm on equal terms with, in abstract terms
a nation not a regent.
Maybe I should have thought more about this when I couldn't find a job
and moved here. I could have picked a country (or Toro... nah) with a
less demanding oath, though I'm guessing all those countries have
languages I'd struggle to learn. Or is it that to join with others in a
country you didn't start out in you have to sacrifice some of your own
values to those of the host? Is that the nature of the beast?
I think they will be lucky to get you, many just swear to anything
without thinking. I confess being young at the time, I didn't care
for the bit about the Queen, being Scottish and coming here where so
many came thrown out of their own country by the English, it stuck in
my craw but now, fifty years later I can see some benefits of having a
dignified woman as the head of state.

Perhaps you could wait three more years and see if Trump prevails
again. If he was gone, I believe you would find it easier. OTOH if he
were re-elected, or another far right bigot of similar type, then
maybe your path would be more clear.

p.s. I think it's good that you take the oath seriously - many just
shrug it off.
Mike Small
2017-11-14 17:21:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
...
Post by l***@fl.it
Post by Mike Small
More difficult is the promise to bear arms: "that I will bear arms on
behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will
perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States
when required by the law." I can't honestly even make as simple a
statement as Aldous Huxley did when he didn't get citizenship or of
Margaret Doughty in the more recent case where she squeaked
through. There very well could be conditions under which I would bear
arms or contribute to a war effort, conditions I would think ought to
have been adequatly covered by, "that I will support and defend the
Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all
enemies, foreign." But to make such an open ended oath in todays'
context would be an out and out falsehood for anyone who's half awake I
would think. Under what circumstances in the world from now til the end
of my life, with the U.S. being a nuclear power with as much non-nuclear
firepower as the rest of the world combined, would such a law come into
force and what likelihood would I have to feel it right to obey such a
law?
...
Post by l***@fl.it
I think they will be lucky to get you, many just swear to anything
without thinking. I confess being young at the time, I didn't care
for the bit about the Queen, being Scottish and coming here where so
many came thrown out of their own country by the English, it stuck in
my craw but now, fifty years later I can see some benefits of having a
dignified woman as the head of state.
Perhaps you could wait three more years and see if Trump prevails
again. If he was gone, I believe you would find it easier. OTOH if he
were re-elected, or another far right bigot of similar type, then
maybe your path would be more clear.
That's a thought. It's nice to discuss this with someone with experience
as an immigrant. I am indeed wondering about the political atmosphere in
USCIS right now, if it's as bad as some news stories have suggested. I
wonder if my interview would go badly in this atmosphere when it might
go better under a more tolerant administration. Under President Obama's
term I think there was movement to be as flexible as possible, which
perhaps is why Margaret Doughty is now a citizen (though maybe that had
more to do with the court). Yet at the same time voting against Trump in
2020 is a motivation for me to get citizenship. I wonder if a person can
have the interview with USCIS, be told his thinking isn't compatible
with U.S. citizenship, think on it for some years and go back again
later having changed or the country having changed, or if once you're
seen as non-citizen material it's over.

The other part of it, though, I'm not sure I'm being realistic about
being 100% in accord with what current law requires for oaths or, in
general, the policies of the country. Are there books a person could
read to advance his thinking on this kind of issue?

I've been reading a bit of Rousseau, Locke, and Paine so far, and that
has budged me a bit from rejecting the oath outright. It was helpful to
read this idea they each wrote about in somewhat similar ways, the
social contract idea that we trade what our natural rights might be in
some theoretical state of nature for the rights of a member in a society
or nation, with one prime benefit of that being the protection that
comes from police and armed forces, protection we couldn't provide
ourselves as individuals, at least not with as much peace and
security.

Maybe there is a reciprical duty to go with that benefit, but at the
same time it so reads like a blank cheque this oath in its present
form. What if peace and security for us here comes someday (soon?) to
mean obliterating some people over there? Isn't there a higher ideal
that should take precedence over these national oaths? In that case what
can these oaths signify and how am I sincere if I take one while
thinking on the hypotheticals?

Further, if some large part of the danger confronting the world comes
from the country I'm now living in and that country is still (to some
degree) responsive to its voters while at the same time wielding a lot
of power abroad affecting people who get no say in how they wield it,
maybe I have a responsibility, looking at a wider picture, to make a
partly false oath. Maybe that wrong is worth it to add my vote and
whatever other smidgen of political power citizenship brings that I
could join with those who would reduce the chances that, say for
instance, hypothetically or not so hypothetically, this country does
something to cause hundreds of thousands of deaths in Seoul or millions
more in the wider Korean peninsula.

I'm not so sure of people. Probably not so many (outside current
leadership) would state openly or even admit to themselves they'll trade
millions of deaths to eliminate all probability of a nuke on their
house. But what is possible if people have the right kind of story to
tell themselves, one that helps them to not look so directly at what
goes down. This idea of a nuke crossing the pacific has captured
imaginations here. I'm hearing worry. And publicly you know there wasn't
that strong a reaction to Trump speaking openly about blowing up all of
North Korea.
--
Mike Small
***@sdf.org
l***@fl.it
2017-11-14 22:13:22 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by Mike Small
That's a thought. It's nice to discuss this with someone with experience
as an immigrant. I am indeed wondering about the political atmosphere in
USCIS right now, if it's as bad as some news stories have suggested. I
wonder if my interview would go badly in this atmosphere when it might
go better under a more tolerant administration. Under President Obama's
term I think there was movement to be as flexible as possible, which
perhaps is why Margaret Doughty is now a citizen (though maybe that had
more to do with the court). Yet at the same time voting against Trump in
2020 is a motivation for me to get citizenship. I wonder if a person can
have the interview with USCIS, be told his thinking isn't compatible
with U.S. citizenship, think on it for some years and go back again
later having changed or the country having changed, or if once you're
seen as non-citizen material it's over.
The other part of it, though, I'm not sure I'm being realistic about
being 100% in accord with what current law requires for oaths or, in
general, the policies of the country. Are there books a person could
read to advance his thinking on this kind of issue?
I've been reading a bit of Rousseau, Locke, and Paine so far, and that
has budged me a bit from rejecting the oath outright. It was helpful to
read this idea they each wrote about in somewhat similar ways, the
social contract idea that we trade what our natural rights might be in
some theoretical state of nature for the rights of a member in a society
or nation, with one prime benefit of that being the protection that
comes from police and armed forces, protection we couldn't provide
ourselves as individuals, at least not with as much peace and
security.
Maybe there is a reciprical duty to go with that benefit, but at the
same time it so reads like a blank cheque this oath in its present
form. What if peace and security for us here comes someday (soon?) to
mean obliterating some people over there? Isn't there a higher ideal
that should take precedence over these national oaths? In that case what
can these oaths signify and how am I sincere if I take one while
thinking on the hypotheticals?
Further, if some large part of the danger confronting the world comes
from the country I'm now living in and that country is still (to some
degree) responsive to its voters while at the same time wielding a lot
of power abroad affecting people who get no say in how they wield it,
maybe I have a responsibility, looking at a wider picture, to make a
partly false oath. Maybe that wrong is worth it to add my vote and
whatever other smidgen of political power citizenship brings that I
could join with those who would reduce the chances that, say for
instance, hypothetically or not so hypothetically, this country does
something to cause hundreds of thousands of deaths in Seoul or millions
more in the wider Korean peninsula.
I'm not so sure of people. Probably not so many (outside current
leadership) would state openly or even admit to themselves they'll trade
millions of deaths to eliminate all probability of a nuke on their
house. But what is possible if people have the right kind of story to
tell themselves, one that helps them to not look so directly at what
goes down. This idea of a nuke crossing the pacific has captured
imaginations here. I'm hearing worry. And publicly you know there wasn't
that strong a reaction to Trump speaking openly about blowing up all of
North Korea.
It's good that you are turning it all over and taking it seriously. I
hope for you it works as well as it has for us. One thing I do take a
nasty delight in doing is to wait until someone finishes some racist
sort of talk about 'immigrants and refugees flooding the place' and
then I quietly say 'I'm an immigrant' - it always embarrasses them and
they bluster around saying, 'Yes, but that's different' - really???
lol
Mike Small
2017-11-15 04:56:14 UTC
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***@fl.it writes:

...
Post by l***@fl.it
It's good that you are turning it all over and taking it seriously. I
hope for you it works as well as it has for us. One thing I do take a
nasty delight in doing is to wait until someone finishes some racist
sort of talk about 'immigrants and refugees flooding the place' and
then I quietly say 'I'm an immigrant' - it always embarrasses them and
they bluster around saying, 'Yes, but that's different' - really???
lol
I find I get both. On the one hand, other white people sometimes say
that sort of thing to me too figuring I'm safely like them I suppose,
but on the other hand if I ever say anything critical about the U.S.,
non-white immigrants will open right up almost instantly about what
they've experienced. I'm thinking in particular of a filipino man I
roomed with during training my first couple weeks here. I forget what
crack I made about the U.S., but shortly after I said it, out it all
comes his being spat on in interviews and being told point blank to go
back to where he came from and so on.
--
Mike Small
***@sdf.org
l***@fl.it
2017-11-15 11:12:25 UTC
Reply
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Post by Mike Small
...
Post by l***@fl.it
It's good that you are turning it all over and taking it seriously. I
hope for you it works as well as it has for us. One thing I do take a
nasty delight in doing is to wait until someone finishes some racist
sort of talk about 'immigrants and refugees flooding the place' and
then I quietly say 'I'm an immigrant' - it always embarrasses them and
they bluster around saying, 'Yes, but that's different' - really???
lol
I find I get both. On the one hand, other white people sometimes say
that sort of thing to me too figuring I'm safely like them I suppose,
but on the other hand if I ever say anything critical about the U.S.,
non-white immigrants will open right up almost instantly about what
they've experienced. I'm thinking in particular of a filipino man I
roomed with during training my first couple weeks here. I forget what
crack I made about the U.S., but shortly after I said it, out it all
comes his being spat on in interviews and being told point blank to go
back to where he came from and so on.
That can happen here too :( I used to volunteer with Immigrant
Settlement, helping families settle, get a cell phone (an area where
it seemed the big companies loved taking advantage of their poor
English and selling them mammoth plans they didn't need) taking them
around town to show them where everything is etc etc.

It's amazing how when you are a visible minority people either seize a
chance to take advantage or heap scorn on you, usually I found it was
the less well educated who did that. In several cases it was
laughable because the immigrants were wealthy Taiwanese who brought us
great benefits. There's an area out in Hammonds Plains amongst the
nice houses known as Little Taiwan - all those houses were bought for
cash when they came here :) Most came on the 'fast tracking'
immigration, for a large fee all the papers could be processed within
a matter of a month or so.

I used to find it very embarrassing, having lived in their countries
and been made genuinely welcome.
Mike Spencer
2017-11-16 07:11:08 UTC
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It's nice to discuss this with someone with experience as an
immigrant. I am indeed wondering about the political atmosphere in
USCIS right now...
[snip]
It's highly commendable that you take the oath of allegiance
seriously. I gather that you've found a career niche that you really
like that promises well for the future. But I have to say that I am
very glad that I left the US nearly 50 years ago. I'm now a Canadian
citizen. The oath of allegiance to the Queen engendered a little
cognitive dissonance, conflicting as it does with the revolutionary
anti-monarchist rehetoric with which colonial history is embued in US
schools but I'm very happy with Canadian citizenship.

I'm sorry to say that my best guess is that the US is in for a very
rough time if it's not completely screwed. If the president remains
in office, internal chaos and disintegration will continue to
propagate through the country and internationally other countries
will begin -- if they haven't already -- to rethink everything for a
post-US world.

If Ammendment XXV is invoked and ratified by Congress, you get Pence
as president. He's not, AFAICT, a demented loose cannon but he's an
extremist nutter and in the pockets of the extremist Koch brothers.

Unlike XXV, which takes effect immediately, impeachment is even more
of a problem because it doesn't. It takes days, weeks or months in
which time the president remains in office. The present president
is sufficiently demented to go for the Samson option were it to appear
that impeachment was about to be ratified by the Senate. And you
still get Pence as president in the best outcome if he doesn't.

AFAICT, the Democratic party, which should be the focal institution
for small-L liberal, progressive and Enlightenment thought and action
for the 70% or so of the population that haven't been suckered or
otherwise captured by Trumpism, is internally riven and taken aback.
The local foci of non-demented political action -- some states and
some major cities, some universities and other institutions -- are far
from being a unified force, leaving effective opposition to deranged
GOP politics and a demented administration fragmented and divided.

So it's an effort for me to grasp the notion of intentionally
immigrating to the US from any place other than a poverty stricken or
violence ridden place. And Canada isn't one of them.

BTW, I thought you were in Boston but your news server and email seem
to be in Seattle. Is that a free Usenet service, or for-fee service or
are you in Seattle?
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Mike Small
2017-11-16 21:25:58 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Mike Spencer
It's nice to discuss this with someone with experience as an
immigrant. I am indeed wondering about the political atmosphere in
USCIS right now...
[snip]
It's highly commendable that you take the oath of allegiance
seriously. I gather that you've found a career niche that you really
like that promises well for the future. But I have to say that I am
To be honest it was more along the lines of me, about 20 years ago,
realizing that I was too socially and vocationally inept to make it in
Halifax. It turns out that Boston is very welcoming to people with both
problems. There's so much work needed to be done they can't be so fussy,
and socially, well, let's just say locals' behaviour does not always set
the bar so high in that regard either.
Post by Mike Spencer
very glad that I left the US nearly 50 years ago. I'm now a Canadian
citizen. The oath of allegiance to the Queen engendered a little
cognitive dissonance, conflicting as it does with the revolutionary
anti-monarchist rehetoric with which colonial history is embued in US
schools but I'm very happy with Canadian citizenship.
I'm wondering how you came to terms with that. I mean, if I were still a
Canadian in any meaningful sense I wouldn't be campaigning for
republicanism, thinking of my grandmother and what the royal family
meant to her, but even so it doesn't match up with what I think Canada
ought to be. The anti-monarchist rhetoric you grew up with is more or
less rational enlightenment thought is it not?
Post by Mike Spencer
I'm sorry to say that my best guess is that the US is in for a very
rough time if it's not completely screwed. If the president remains
in office, internal chaos and disintegration will continue to
propagate through the country and internationally other countries
will begin -- if they haven't already -- to rethink everything for a
post-US world.
If Ammendment XXV is invoked and ratified by Congress, you get Pence
as president. He's not, AFAICT, a demented loose cannon but he's an
extremist nutter and in the pockets of the extremist Koch brothers.
Unlike XXV, which takes effect immediately, impeachment is even more
of a problem because it doesn't. It takes days, weeks or months in
which time the president remains in office. The present president
is sufficiently demented to go for the Samson option were it to appear
that impeachment was about to be ratified by the Senate. And you
still get Pence as president in the best outcome if he doesn't.
AFAICT, the Democratic party, which should be the focal institution
for small-L liberal, progressive and Enlightenment thought and action
for the 70% or so of the population that haven't been suckered or
otherwise captured by Trumpism, is internally riven and taken aback.
The local foci of non-demented political action -- some states and
some major cities, some universities and other institutions -- are far
from being a unified force, leaving effective opposition to deranged
GOP politics and a demented administration fragmented and divided.
So it's an effort for me to grasp the notion of intentionally
immigrating to the US from any place other than a poverty stricken or
violence ridden place. And Canada isn't one of them.
Yeah, I had a work friend at my last job with a similar reaction. Why
the hell did you move, I think was how he put it when we first met, and
not all that facetiously.

I wasn't that keen on the idea myself at the time. I was pretty
apolitical but was afraid of the U.S. and intimidated by any city bigger
than Halifax. But I got an offer from a company in Boston for a whopping
34K (my best salary up to then was 18K). A place named ITI that taught
people visual basic, MS access, Oracle, etc. found the job for me. Maybe
you heard of ITI? Up to the point of the dotcom bust they had some good
success at placing Nova Scotians who were struggling to find "career
jobs" by teaching immediately marketable computer skills and using a
handful of contacts they'd made mostly in Florida, Boston, and Toronto
to place their graduates. In retropect going to Toronto (though I have a
bone to pick with Toronto) or Calgary would have been the smarter
option. It also might have been smarter to pursue a masters in compsci
at TUNS / Dal. I'd actually started auditing a course at TUNS that a
neighbour taught. I remember reading a book on Prolog in the old Halifax
library in anticipation of taking his course. But somewhere in there I
panicked (maybe the ghosts from all those unmarked graves gave me a
scare) and gave ITI all the money my grandparents gave me in exchange
for them getting me this U.S. job, believing that to be the shortest
path out of my mom's basement, which indeed it was. But I still haven't
learned Prolog. There's a Common Lisp implementation of it in that
renowned Norvig AI book that's been gathering dust on my shelf. Maybe
someday.

Besides that angle on things I had no social setting beyond my immediate
family tying me to Halifax/Dartmouth. My best university friends were
Chinese from Hong Kong and Malaysia and returned there upon graduation.
Other people my age who grew up in Nova Scotia were fleeing in numbers
too.

So there was not much reason to stay in 1997, and I didn't hate Bill
Clinton or feel strongly one way or the other about issues like bombing
Serbia or his dragging the Democratic party to the right. As far as
escaping the present Trump shitstorm and going back, well, can't do it.
Aside from having this persistent lingering association between Halifax
and companies that won't hire me and women who won't date me, my new
social setting doesn't migrate. A little hard to explain, but like how
you're told to speak loudest the words you can't pronounce let me put it
starkly: I'm in a committed platonic relationship with two American
ex-girlfriends one of whom I'm co-parenting with. I'll want to stay near
my son obviously, but I've also promised to remain in the life of one of
the ex-girlfriends, and thanks to a few random Torontonians (funny how
it's the Canadians who most resemble Americans culturally who are the
most rabid in their anti-Americanism) there's no way she'd ever move to
Canada. Being not the sort of person who can afford to casually throw
away friends, even if one of them voted for Trump and the other can't go
to Halifax without asking if they have gyms and movie theaters and like
such, I'll be sticking around here for the indefinite future.
Post by Mike Spencer
BTW, I thought you were in Boston but your news server and email seem
to be in Seattle. Is that a free Usenet service, or for-fee service or
are you in Seattle?
Yeah, early on I was using a local Boston (Brookline, technically) unix
ISP, theworld (http://theworld.com/), but I didn't like their take on
spam fighting. SDF offers free shell access (NetBSD) and does have a
USENET server among other things. It's a non-profit run essentially by
one guy, with maybe a little "audience participation." You can use more
of their services and resources if you donate, but the very basic level
of unix shell account you can get for free. It's been around in some
form since 1987:

http://sdf.org/?faq?BASICS?02
http://sdf.org/?join

The higher level of service isn't all that expensive btw. You can give
whatever you want of course, but the recommended amount is really low
for what you get access to. E.g. the "ARPA" level is given to you for a
one time donation of $36 U.S. That's one time ever. I should probably
send more money his way soon. Seems to me there was some announcement
not long ago about him replacing the disks for the USENET server using
his own credit card.

Do you ever get the urge to use TOPS-20? I don't know exactly what that
is but it's something included at the basic level. The guy who runs sdf
has some association with a computer museum in Seattle and occasionally
communicates logins for other vintage systems you can log into. There
was also a neat Plan 9 class one time using his VPS service. Not ideal
with 90ms of latency between me and his servers, but still, very
interesting to see it in action.
--
Mike Small
***@sdf.org
Mike Spencer
2017-11-17 03:00:24 UTC
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Post by Mike Small
Post by Mike Spencer
very glad that I left the US nearly 50 years ago. I'm now a Canadian
citizen. The oath of allegiance to the Queen engendered a little
cognitive dissonance, conflicting as it does with the revolutionary
anti-monarchist rehetoric with which colonial history is embued in US
schools but I'm very happy with Canadian citizenship.
I'm wondering how you came to terms with that. I mean, if I were still a
Canadian in any meaningful sense I wouldn't be campaigning for
republicanism, thinking of my grandmother and what the royal family
meant to her, but even so it doesn't match up with what I think Canada
ought to be. The anti-monarchist rhetoric you grew up with is more or
less rational enlightenment thought is it not?
Well, the American rhetoric emerged in the mid/late 18th c. from
colonial experience of, say, the century preceding 1750. AFAICT,
exploitation of colonies (and slavery) under the Commonwealth, late
Stuarts and Hanoverians justified the American revolution. Late 20th
c. & 21st c. Canadian parliamentary monarchy is a very different
animal. The principal of the unelected Senate is good even if the
implementation is prone to episodic or even chronic failure. And
(again, AFAICT) corruption of the political process in Canadian
parliamentary implementation is far less that in the US system. [1]
Post by Mike Small
Post by Mike Spencer
So it's an effort for me to grasp the notion of intentionally
immigrating to the US from any place other than a poverty stricken or
violence ridden place. And Canada isn't one of them.
Yeah, I had a work friend at my last job with a similar reaction. Why
the hell did you move, I think was how he put it when we first met, and
not all that facetiously.
I wasn't that keen on the idea myself at the time. I was pretty
apolitical but was afraid of the U.S. and intimidated by any city bigger
than Halifax. But I got an offer from a company in Boston for a whopping
34K (my best salary up to then was 18K). A place named ITI that taught
people visual basic, MS access, Oracle, etc. found the job for me. Maybe
you heard of ITI?
Yes. It's great that they actually came through for you. It's not a
subject that I follow but what I do pick up is that there are numerous
such institutions that that are barefaced rip-offs. Didn't the
president run one of those?
Post by Mike Small
But somewhere in there I panicked (maybe the ghosts from all those
unmarked graves gave me a scare) and gave ITI all the money my
grandparents gave me in exchange for them getting me this U.S. job,
believing that to be the shortest path out of my mom's basement,
which indeed it was.
Well, I can't argue with that. Otaku is okay. Parasaito shinguru or
hikikomori not so much. :-)
Post by Mike Small
Besides that angle on things I had no social setting beyond my immediate
family tying me to Halifax/Dartmouth. My best university friends were
Chinese from Hong Kong and Malaysia...
Gee, that doesn't sound like social deficit to me. So many of my uni
friends were WASPs that the one black guy, one Cherokee and handfull
of observant Jews stand out by comparison.
Post by Mike Small
...and returned there upon graduation. Other people my age who grew
up in Nova Scotia were fleeing in numbers too.
Twenty to thirty years ago, I heard that that was happening but it was
remote from my day-to-day. One of my kids went to Hamilton and then
Vancouver for 2 or 3 years but came back.
Post by Mike Small
A little hard to explain, but like how you're told to speak loudest
the words you can't pronounce let me put it starkly: I'm in a
committed platonic relationship with two American ex-girlfriends one
of whom I'm co-parenting with. I'll want to stay near my son
obviously, but I've also promised to remain in the life of one of
the ex-girlfriends...
In other words, "it's complicated". Haven't been there myself but one
of my kids has been. Choices made may not look like the best ones to
an outsider but look like the right thing to do to the guy making the
choice.
Post by Mike Small
Post by Mike Spencer
BTW, I thought you were in Boston but your news server and email seem
to be in Seattle. Is that a free Usenet service, or for-fee service or
are you in Seattle?
Yeah, early on I was using a local Boston (Brookline, technically) unix
ISP, theworld (http://theworld.com/)...
That would be addresses at world.std.com maybe? I knew other people
who used that.
Post by Mike Small
...but I didn't like their take on spam fighting. SDF offers free
shell access (NetBSD) and does have a USENET server among other
things. It's a non-profit run essentially by one guy, with maybe a
little "audience participation." You can use more of their services
and resources if you donate, but the very basic level of unix shell
account you can get for free. It's been around in some form since
http://sdf.org/?faq?BASICS?02
http://sdf.org/?join
Thaks for the pointer. Should my very local ISP fail, I'd want a guy
like that admining my email, not gmail or hotmail.
Post by Mike Small
Do you ever get the urge to use TOPS-20?
Hah! No. Linux is plenty old-school for me.
Post by Mike Small
I don't know exactly what that is but it's something included at the
basic level.
That's cool. It's a DEC OS antedating Unix and VMS that ran on DEC's
PDP hardware antedating the VAX. Drop in on alt.folklore.computers and
you can find former DEC people my age complaining that modern systems
aren't as good. :-)


[1] How do you get a liquor license in Massachusetts? Told to me by a
lawyer friend from Springfield, circa 1976.

You get the application forms and fill them out. Take them and
$5,000 (this is in 1970s dollars, so maybe 6 times as much now) to
your lawyer. He takes $4,500 to a lawyer who specializes in
liquor licenses. That guy take $4,000 to one of 2 or 3 lawyers on
Boston to specialize in liquor licenses. That guy in turn takes
$3,000 to his contact on Beacon Hill. And your license magically
appears in the mail.

If you just fill out the forms, turn them in at the State House,
pay the nominal $100 fee, you never hear about it ever again.
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Mike Small
2017-11-20 20:07:21 UTC
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Post by Mike Spencer
Post by Mike Small
I wasn't that keen on the idea myself at the time. I was pretty
apolitical but was afraid of the U.S. and intimidated by any city bigger
than Halifax. But I got an offer from a company in Boston for a whopping
34K (my best salary up to then was 18K). A place named ITI that taught
people visual basic, MS access, Oracle, etc. found the job for me. Maybe
you heard of ITI?
Yes. It's great that they actually came through for you. It's not a
subject that I follow but what I do pick up is that there are numerous
such institutions that that are barefaced rip-offs. Didn't the
president run one of those?
His real estate school, a.k.a. Trump University? I wouldn't put ITI in
that category. It wasn't really a scam (at least in the beginning, see
below). They actually did have reasonably decent instruction and it paid
off for most of us, at least in the short term.

I remember one instructor, one who taught Oracle and RDBMS Entity
Relationship diagraming with a very minimal amount of theory. Fantastic
teacher. He said he chose to teach there because he was frustrated with
what local universities were teaching. The practice of database
programming was lost among the theory apparently. And others among their
instructors worked hard and taught reasonably well. So I don't think
anyone sued ITI. The majority of students seemed quite happy with them
in fact, at least in 1997. I mean, it wasn't computer science, but they
didn't advertise it as being that.

There was a lawsuit involving a similar kind of school named
CompuCollege that maybe didn't pull things off so well. And I didn't
hear how things ended at ITI. When the jobs went away no doubt the grads
were less happy. I could imagine the winding down being quite ugly,
since what they taught didn't have much shelf life (in fact I don't even
mention them on my résumé anymore), e.g. Powerbuilder and MS Access were
among the offerings. Maybe having something along the lines of ITI from
Dalhousie's or St. Mary's continuing education programs would have been
better. Ideally people who didn't feel they had the time to do a proper
degree program would at least have the option to take one or two of the
more fundamental of the comp. sci. courses along with all the so called
practical stuff. Or maybe there's some other solution. Seems like the
world could use a better way to keep people in industry trained and to
take in unemployed people and teach them things during down markets.

Ooh, here's an article. Apparently the Nova Scotia Tax payer ended up on
the hook for the last class that attended the program:
https://novascotia.ca/news/release/?id=20010831006

...
Post by Mike Spencer
Post by Mike Small
Yeah, early on I was using a local Boston (Brookline, technically) unix
ISP, theworld (http://theworld.com/)...
That would be addresses at world.std.com maybe? I knew other people
who used that.
Yeah, that's the one. I don't know how they still exist when their web
page advertises $20 for dialup service or how they afford digs in
Coolidge Corner. If they had a cheap shell account service like
panix.com, which I also used for awhile, I might consider them again in
case the issue I'm having emailing yahoo and hotmail addresses persists
this time. Then again, I'm not sure theworld mail servers wouldn't get
blocked too. I'm not seeing SPF entries among smtp.theworld.com's dns
records either. It's not really clear what hotmail is doing (or whether
they know what they're doing) but part of their troubleshooting page
seems to suggest the whole world is expected to adopt Sender Policy
Framework before communicating with them. Meh, maybe I don't need to
communicate with people using hotmail or yahoo. Especially not yahoo,
where they scan everyone's email for the U.S. government. Plus how many
billion of their users' accounts was it that were compromised. Maybe
their sysadmins went to ITI, eh?
--
Mike Small
***@sdf.org
l***@fl.it
2017-11-09 17:40:06 UTC
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...
Post by l***@fl.it
Post by Mike Small
I've been ineligible to vote anywhere for some time. To be honest my
feelings about trying for U.S. citizenship were so mixed, and the way
the system works combined with how secure most Democrat seats and the
especially the electoral college votes are in Massachusetts, I was
almost ready to let that go. But the day after Trump was elected then I
decided that if my life is here (and so it is now) then not being a
citizen only makes me like some kind of multi-decade tourist. Even if
it's just to make Elizabeth Warren and Ed Markey that much more
comfortable in their 2018 wins I should make sure I can vote.
Good on you! You can always get your Canadian Citizenship back later,
after all , if Conrad Black could... :)
Not even necessary these days. It's confusing because the
U.S. citizenship oath, the oath of allegiance, will have me, "renounce
and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate,
state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject
or citizen..." In fact, at least formally and on paper, I will retain my
Canadian citizenship. Now, IMO the flip side of my thinking it
meaningful and important to be a participating citizen whereever I
happen to be making my life is that I am not in a true sense
(philosophical sense? not meaning to renounce my Cdn citizenship here) a
Canadian citizen so long as I'm not making my life there -- which is why
I think it fair and reasonable that you can't vote once you've been out
five years. But as far as all the bureaucratic rigamarole there's
nothing to do should I move back later to be both morally and legally a
citizen again because I remain legally one (though one without voting
privileges).
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/dual-citizenship-allowed-naturalizing-us-citizens.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_nationality_law#Under_the_current_Act_and_its_amendments
After becoming Canucks we kept our UK passports going for awhile -
just so we could pass through the UK only section more speedily at
Heathrow, but when the EU came about it didn't make any difference so
we just kept our Canadian ones.

My kids were only 8,6 & 5 at the time and had spent most of that in
Japan so they feel Canadian, for myself since I never really settled
anywhere for long before we came here, as one of my uncles ruefully
said 'I am more bigoted, like an RC, for being converted than born'
lol
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