Post by HRM Resident Post by Mike Small Post by Punk
I remember some years back this discussion happening in Halifax.
I don't recall the outcome. Maybe JVG can fill me in.
I have a big problem with people hailing from third world shitholes making
up meanings in their head about what long held traditions mean and seeking
to eliminate them. If the Dutch who are an exemplary people and nation if there
ever was one say it's all good, then that's all I need.
Oh yeah, cause the Dutch are so free of racism and have such a kind
colonial history in Africa.
Every dog has it's day. In the 1700s the Dutch were arguably the
most powerful country in Europe with tentacles stretching as far as
they could travel. These things come and go.
Ask the French, Spanish, Portuguese, Germans, Ottomans and now,
the UK. Most countries in Europe had a go at being the "boss" for a
few decades . . . even a century . . . and then it's someone else's
turn. The UK is in decline now after over a century of being number 1.
The others lasted a bit longer or shorter, but "empires" don't last
I highly doubt the Dutch held a monopoly on racism and being harsh
rulers of their colonies.
Whataboutism? My statement implied no monopoly. Like Punk, I have a
somewhat favourable impression of Dutch people generally, my brother
having married one and my having worked with some at my last job. I'm
only saying if one of them said to me, "never mind that black face
thing, it's harmless. We're Dutch. We're quirky and strange. Here, have
some of our nice bread." Well, not sure that would satisfy me, since as
you point out they have the same oppressive colonizing history that the
other past European powers have, and we know those powers have a legacy
of racism runing into the present that in part justified the conquests
then and now perhaps justifies not making proper amends for them.
So, looking at the image on that link and thinking what the hell is
that, I look up the name in wikipedia and soon discover that...
1. its history and associations are not entirely innocent
2. it's somewhat controversial in Holland now. Some number of Dutch
don't need Canadians, the Caribbean Union, or Solidarity Ottawa to tell
them this is a problematic image but have come up with that idea on
their own and feel quite embarrassed.
Post by HRM Resident
We are a tribal species. We like to fight and go to war. At
least we have in all recorded history, and after about 75 years of
relative peace, it seems like everyone forgot the ~60 million deaths
in WW II and are ready to try to top that number.
Yes, we're horrible. So we would seem to be in agreement.
But it is always amusing to watch people react in anger when others take
offense with more or less the reaction, "you shall not be offended by
that. It's not offensive. I know because I didn't mean it that way." So
not so nice are we, and not likely to be one of the longer lived
species, but at least our spiral into oblivion has these moments of