Discussion:
Backlash grows against Tim Hortons worker benefit cuts
(too old to reply)
HRM Resident
2018-01-10 14:40:28 UTC
Permalink
<http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tim-hortons-minimum-wage-worker-benefits-1.4480097>

I went there a dozen times a year or so. I don't have that of a
strong view on this issue to get very involved, but I'll cut out going
to their coffee shops all together.

Horton's fight is with the Ontario government, not their minimum
wage employees. I can make my own coffee better than they do, anyhow! :-)
--
HRM Resident
HRM Resident
2018-01-10 14:47:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by HRM Resident
<http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tim-hortons-minimum-wage-worker-benefits-1.4480097>
    I went there a dozen times a year or so.  I don't have that of a
strong view on this issue to get very involved, but I'll cut out going
to their coffee shops all together.
    Horton's fight is with the Ontario government, not their minimum
wage employees.  I can make my own coffee better than they do, anyhow! :-)
This is why there is a problem at Tim Horton's. Their new hires
are piss-poor workers! :-)

<Loading Image...>
--
HRM Resident
l***@fl.it
2018-01-10 17:42:18 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 10:47:43 -0400, HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
<http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tim-hortons-minimum-wage-worker-benefits-1.4480097>
    I went there a dozen times a year or so.  I don't have that of a
strong view on this issue to get very involved, but I'll cut out going
to their coffee shops all together.
    Horton's fight is with the Ontario government, not their minimum
wage employees.  I can make my own coffee better than they do, anyhow! :-)
This is why there is a problem at Tim Horton's. Their new hires
are piss-poor workers! :-)
<http://www.macleans.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/MAC24_TIM_HORTONS_POST01.jpg>
Yoiks, glad of a good laugh today! Heavy cough/sore throat hit me.
Mike Spencer
2018-01-10 19:54:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by HRM Resident
This is why there is a problem at Tim Horton's. Their new hires
are piss-poor workers! :-)
Jeez, that's rather unkind of you...
Post by HRM Resident
http://www.macleans.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/MAC24_TIM_HORTONS_POST01.jpg
Oh! Right. :-)
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
l***@fl.it
2018-01-10 17:40:55 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 10:40:28 -0400, HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
<http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tim-hortons-minimum-wage-worker-benefits-1.4480097>
I went there a dozen times a year or so. I don't have that of a
strong view on this issue to get very involved, but I'll cut out going
to their coffee shops all together.
Horton's fight is with the Ontario government, not their minimum
wage employees. I can make my own coffee better than they do, anyhow! :-)
However, their minimum wage workers are getting caught in the wash,
less hours etc. I think it is disgusting, very Trumpish.
Punk
2018-01-11 02:57:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@fl.it
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 10:40:28 -0400, HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
<http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tim-hortons-minimum-wage-worker-benefits-1.4480097>
I went there a dozen times a year or so. I don't have that of a
strong view on this issue to get very involved, but I'll cut out going
to their coffee shops all together.
Horton's fight is with the Ontario government, not their minimum
wage employees. I can make my own coffee better than they do, anyhow! :-)
However, their minimum wage workers are getting caught in the wash,
less hours etc. I think it is disgusting, very Trumpish.
It's an interesting economics experiments being played out here in Ontario.
Next Jan. business will have to absorb an additional hike to bring minimum
wage to $15 hour. Opinions are all over as to what the results will be.


Punk
Wayne Hines
2018-01-11 11:27:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Punk
Post by l***@fl.it
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 10:40:28 -0400, HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
<http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tim-hortons-minimum-wage-worker-
benefits-1.4480097>
Post by Punk
Post by l***@fl.it
Post by HRM Resident
I went there a dozen times a year or so. I don't have that of a
strong view on this issue to get very involved, but I'll cut out going
to their coffee shops all together.
Horton's fight is with the Ontario government, not their minimum
wage employees. I can make my own coffee better than they do, anyhow! :-)
However, their minimum wage workers are getting caught in the wash,
less hours etc. I think it is disgusting, very Trumpish.
It's an interesting economics experiments being played out here in Ontario.
Next Jan. business will have to absorb an additional hike to bring
minimum wage to $15 hour. Opinions are all over as to what the results
will be.
Punk
And, economics experiment is just about what it is. It's a huge increase
to a company's labour expense, not only for the wages but also for the
benefits/other expenses tied to those wages.

Such an increase does not only affect employees at the minimum wage
level. Anyone who was making a dollar or two above the previous minimum
wage level will see their pay increased to at least the new minimum.

Lets say (figures for convenience) a Tim's outlet had a payroll of
$100,000 at the minimum wage with another 10% for the cost of worker
benefits. Let's say this operation produced a $60,000 profit which the
owner/operator took as his/her annual wage.

Now, that payroll has gone to $120,000 and the benefits from 10 to 12
thousand, leaving the owner with only $38,000. And that's just for the
people who had been making minimum wage. If that's your business, how do
you get back that $22,000?

gwh
--
I used to care but things have changed.
l***@fl.it
2018-01-11 12:34:43 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 11:27:56 GMT, Wayne Hines
Post by HRM Resident
Post by Punk
Post by l***@fl.it
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 10:40:28 -0400, HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
<http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tim-hortons-minimum-wage-worker-
benefits-1.4480097>
Post by Punk
Post by l***@fl.it
Post by HRM Resident
I went there a dozen times a year or so. I don't have that of a
strong view on this issue to get very involved, but I'll cut out going
to their coffee shops all together.
Horton's fight is with the Ontario government, not their minimum
wage employees. I can make my own coffee better than they do, anyhow! :-)
However, their minimum wage workers are getting caught in the wash,
less hours etc. I think it is disgusting, very Trumpish.
It's an interesting economics experiments being played out here in Ontario.
Next Jan. business will have to absorb an additional hike to bring
minimum wage to $15 hour. Opinions are all over as to what the results
will be.
Punk
And, economics experiment is just about what it is. It's a huge increase
to a company's labour expense, not only for the wages but also for the
benefits/other expenses tied to those wages.
Such an increase does not only affect employees at the minimum wage
level. Anyone who was making a dollar or two above the previous minimum
wage level will see their pay increased to at least the new minimum.
Lets say (figures for convenience) a Tim's outlet had a payroll of
$100,000 at the minimum wage with another 10% for the cost of worker
benefits. Let's say this operation produced a $60,000 profit which the
owner/operator took as his/her annual wage.
Now, that payroll has gone to $120,000 and the benefits from 10 to 12
thousand, leaving the owner with only $38,000. And that's just for the
people who had been making minimum wage. If that's your business, how do
you get back that $22,000?
gwh
I'm going to say, in their instance, take a little less yourself.
Perhaps even spend money on making all those damned coffee mugs
recyclable.

I can understand with much smaller businesses that it will hurt, but
not Hortons.
HRM Resident
2018-01-11 13:28:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by HRM Resident
Post by Punk
Post by l***@fl.it
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 10:40:28 -0400, HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
<http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tim-hortons-minimum-wage-worker-
benefits-1.4480097>
Post by Punk
Post by l***@fl.it
Post by HRM Resident
I went there a dozen times a year or so. I don't have that of a
strong view on this issue to get very involved, but I'll cut out going
to their coffee shops all together.
Horton's fight is with the Ontario government, not their minimum
wage employees. I can make my own coffee better than they do, anyhow! :-)
However, their minimum wage workers are getting caught in the wash,
less hours etc. I think it is disgusting, very Trumpish.
It's an interesting economics experiments being played out here in Ontario.
Next Jan. business will have to absorb an additional hike to bring
minimum wage to $15 hour. Opinions are all over as to what the results
will be.
Punk
And, economics experiment is just about what it is. It's a huge increase
to a company's labour expense, not only for the wages but also for the
benefits/other expenses tied to those wages.
Such an increase does not only affect employees at the minimum wage
level. Anyone who was making a dollar or two above the previous minimum
wage level will see their pay increased to at least the new minimum.
Lets say (figures for convenience) a Tim's outlet had a payroll of
$100,000 at the minimum wage with another 10% for the cost of worker
benefits. Let's say this operation produced a $60,000 profit which the
owner/operator took as his/her annual wage.
Now, that payroll has gone to $120,000 and the benefits from 10 to 12
thousand, leaving the owner with only $38,000. And that's just for the
people who had been making minimum wage. If that's your business, how do
you get back that $22,000?
gwh
Your numbers add up, and for a small business you make a point.

The driving force behind this current move is Ron Joyce Jr and his
wife Jeri-Lyn. They are the respective married-to-each-other
grandchildren of the founders. As of 2017, Ron Joyce Jr is worth an
estimated USD $1.4 billion according to Forbes.

I really don't see how cutting a few dollars a day from minimum
wage workers is necessary for a man worth USD $1.4 billion. Reminds me
of K C Irving who made billions off the resources in NB, and then ran
off to Bermuda so he didn't have to give a cent in taxes back to the
country who made him a billionaire.

I spell this G-R-E-E-D. I suspect Ron Joyce Jr spells it "I
E-A-R-N-E-D IT. It's a matter of perspective.
--
HRM Resident
Mike Small
2018-01-11 22:44:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by HRM Resident
Post by Wayne Hines
Now, that payroll has gone to $120,000 and the benefits from 10 to 12
thousand, leaving the owner with only $38,000. And that's just for the
people who had been making minimum wage. If that's your business, how do
you get back that $22,000?
Your numbers add up, and for a small business you make a point.
The driving force behind this current move is Ron Joyce Jr and his
wife Jeri-Lyn. They are the respective married-to-each-other
grandchildren of the founders. As of 2017, Ron Joyce Jr is worth an
estimated USD $1.4 billion according to Forbes.
I really don't see how cutting a few dollars a day from minimum
wage workers is necessary for a man worth USD $1.4 billion. Reminds
me of K C Irving who made billions off the resources in NB, and then
ran off to Bermuda so he didn't have to give a cent in taxes back to
the country who made him a billionaire.
The article suggested the franchise owners motivation was for feeling
pinched and not being allowed to raise prices (though there's some
finger pointing up and down). How does franchising work in this case?
Does the franchise pay Tim Hortons in proportion to their profits or at
a fixed rate?

Whatever the justification, sounds like wage theft to me. You're talking
about breaks at work being unpaid. So a person taking a break during her
shift has to clock out and then back in again so she's not paid that
time? It's not like she's gone home or to the movies on her break. I
call that unpaid time, i.e. wage theft.

The lesson here, I think, is for consumers to be less cautious and seek
out independently businesses, where they exist, rather than feeding all
this money into companies with this kind of market power. We know these
chains depend on us feeling more safe and comfortable with these names
we've heard of or seen advertised on tv, but let's be more conscious
ourselves of the problems caused this way. Hey, most of us have smart
phones, so we can look up store reviews online if we're unsure of a
place. Wouldn't it be neat if there were fewer Tim Hortons and a few
more coffee/donut places unique to whatever area they are in? Without
the larger franchising entity lording over each location then at least
you get local flexibility in adjusting to the higher wages. Also, and
maybe this is farfetched, I don't know, but you could imagine the
possibility of shared ownership or worker coops arising moreso than when
there is the corporate behemoth ultimately in charge.
--
Mike Small
***@sdf.org
l***@fl.it
2018-01-11 12:32:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Punk
Post by l***@fl.it
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 10:40:28 -0400, HRM Resident
Post by HRM Resident
<http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tim-hortons-minimum-wage-worker-benefits-1.4480097>
I went there a dozen times a year or so. I don't have that of a
strong view on this issue to get very involved, but I'll cut out going
to their coffee shops all together.
Horton's fight is with the Ontario government, not their minimum
wage employees. I can make my own coffee better than they do, anyhow! :-)
However, their minimum wage workers are getting caught in the wash,
less hours etc. I think it is disgusting, very Trumpish.
It's an interesting economics experiments being played out here in Ontario.
Next Jan. business will have to absorb an additional hike to bring minimum
wage to $15 hour. Opinions are all over as to what the results will be.
Punk
Happy New Year Punkie! I just found it totally unattractive that the
Hortons family would resent paying out at least a living wage to their
workers.
NLR
2018-01-11 23:23:58 UTC
Permalink
On 2018-01-11 9:02 AM, ***@fl.it wrote:
I just found it totally unattractive that the
Post by l***@fl.it
Hortons family would resent paying out at least a living wage to their
workers.
Sounds like you misunderstand what is happening.

It is not the Horton family who is against the Ontario
government's action but a couple of Horton Franchise owners.
Those franchise owners are essentially small business owners who
are taking an unfair financial hit.
Jack
2018-01-12 00:43:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by l***@fl.it
I just found it totally unattractive that the
Post by l***@fl.it
Hortons family would resent paying out at least a living wage to their
workers.
Sounds like you misunderstand what is happening.
It is not the Horton family who is against the Ontario
government's action but a couple of Horton Franchise owners.
Those franchise owners are essentially small business owners who
are taking an unfair financial hit.
exactly...these are unskilled labourers...$10/hr is about right...
NLR
2018-01-13 19:07:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack
Post by l***@fl.it
I just found it totally unattractive that the
Post by l***@fl.it
Hortons family would resent paying out at least a living wage to their
workers.
Sounds like you misunderstand what is happening.
It is not the Horton family who is against the Ontario
government's action but a couple of Horton Franchise owners.
Those franchise owners are essentially small business owners who
are taking an unfair financial hit.
exactly...these are unskilled labourers...$10/hr is about right...
That’s about 5 times what we gave you for oral sex.

Carter

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