How is religious intolerence not bigotry?

[HRM Resident]

I see religious intolerance as similar to racism because
both are forms of bigotry. Both involve unfair treatment and
discrimination. Sometimes, it explodes into war (look at the
Middle East.)

Racism targets race, and religious intolerance targets beliefs. These
behaviours create division and hostility
in society, showing a refusal to accept and respect different
types of people.

Recognizing these actions as bigotry is essential for tackling their
harmful effects on communities. Those who
mock religious believers but pretend to be progressive
thinkers are no different than Archie Bunker-style bigots.

They claim they don’t care if making someone feel bad
by this mockery. I do care if I make someone feel bad
because of their beliefs. I am not a religious believer, but
I feel it is rude and disrespectful to mock them because
they think differently than I do.

[James Warren]

Post by HRM Resident
I see religious intolerance as similar to racism because
both are forms of bigotry. Both involve unfair treatment and
discrimination. Sometimes, it explodes into war (look at the
Middle East.)
Racism targets race, and religious intolerance targets beliefs. These
behaviours create division and hostility
in society, showing a refusal to accept and respect different
types of people.
Recognizing these actions as bigotry is essential for tackling their
harmful effects on communities. Those who
mock religious believers but pretend to be progressive
thinkers are no different than Archie Bunker-style bigots.
They claim they don’t care if making someone feel bad
by this mockery. I do care if I make someone feel bad
because of their beliefs. I am not a religious believer, but
I feel it is rude and disrespectful to mock them because
they think differently than I do.
Substitute political beliefs for religious beliefs and see if it

still make sense.

There is a difference between religious doctrines and religious
believers. As you should know by now I mock all ideas that a silly. That
includes religions.

As for the believers themselves most are very normal people with both
good and bad traits like we all do. It is just unfortunate that they are
victims of a delusion.

[HRM Resident]

Post by James Warren
As for the believers themselves most are very normal
people with both good and bad traits like we all do. It is
just unfortunate that they are victims of a delusion.

Exactly the response I expected. There will always be
opinions offered by those who judge others based on their
own standards.

[James Warren]

Post by HRM Resident

Post by James Warren
As for the believers themselves most are very normal
people with both good and bad traits like we all do. It is
just unfortunate that they are victims of a delusion.

Exactly the response I expected. There will always be
opinions offered by those who judge others based on their
own standards.

It is just a statement of fact.

If not our own standards, then by whose standards? Yours?

I think you forgot that USENET is not real life. USENET is a forum for
the free expression of ideas and discussion. If you wish to see some
topics taboo then maybe this is not the place for you.

Change of subject.

You keep saying "I don't know" when you have no ideas or run out of
arguments. But you definitely do "know" things. You definitely "know"
than DM?DE is wrong and that arguments against free will are BULLSHIT.
It seems that "I don't know" is just a convenient escape route when you
can no longer carry on a discussion.

[HRM Resident]

Post by James Warren
I think you forgot that USENET is not real life. USENET is a forum for
the free expression of ideas and discussion.

Like TFG uses "My freedom of speech allows me to say anything."

Post by James Warren
Change of subject.
You keep saying "I don't know" when you have no ideas or run out of
arguments. But you definitely do "know" things.

I know a lot of things, but there are more things I don't know than
I do know. I don't know if DM/DE exists. I don't know where we came
from, where we are going or why we are here. You claim you do. You
can't admit you don't know something because science *always* must have
a hypotheses, no matter how unlikely it is to be right. If a scientist
says "I don't know," they get kicked out of the club. :-) If it's such
an exclusive club, I'm glad I ain't allowed in!

Back to the main topic. One slippery move you make is to say you
don't mock religious believers, just the things they believe. OK, how
is that different than not mocking those who support, for example, black
equality, but mocking blacks? Or any other minority. Is mocking
gays/Aboriginals/immigrants, etc., OK as long as you don't mock people
who treat them fairly?

I still say *something* or *someone* with ties to religion abused
you in the past. Your irrational hatred and mockery of religions didn't
materialize out of thin air.

[James Warren]

On 2024-04-23 11:07 a.m., HRM Resident wrote:

.............

Post by HRM Resident

Post by James Warren
I think you forgot that USENET is not real life. USENET is a forum for
the free expression of ideas and discussion.

Like TFG uses "My freedom of speech allows me to say anything."

He's mostly right.

Post by HRM Resident

Post by James Warren
Change of subject.
You keep saying "I don't know" when you have no ideas or run out of
arguments. But you definitely do "know" things.

I know a lot of things, but there are more things I don't know than
I do know. I don't know if DM/DE exists.

But you claim it does not.

I don't know where we cam

Post by HRM Resident
from, where we are going or why we are here. You claim you do.

Are those even meaningful questions? We don't appear to have a reason to
be here. We just are.

You

Post by HRM Resident
can't admit you don't know something because science *always* must have
a hypotheses, no matter how unlikely it is to be right.

Well, yeah, that's how science works.

If a scientist

Post by HRM Resident
says "I don't know," they get kicked out of the club. :-)

Total nonsense. It is not knowing stuff that drives science.

If it's such

Post by HRM Resident
an exclusive club, I'm glad I ain't allowed in!

But you are allowed in. You just need to be a seeker of knowledge.

Post by HRM Resident
Back to the main topic. One slippery move you make is to say you
don't mock religious believers, just the things they believe.

Correct.

OK, how

Post by HRM Resident
is that different than not mocking those who support, for example, black
equality, but mocking blacks?

Eh? I do support black equality. Your point?

Or any other minority. Is mocking

Post by HRM Resident
gays/Aboriginals/immigrants, etc., OK as long as you don't mock people
who treat them fairly?

Why would I mock those groups? I would mock those who treat them
UNfairly. I don't get wht you're on about here.

Post by HRM Resident
I still say *something* or *someone* with ties to religion abused
you in the past. Your irrational hatred and mockery of religions didn't
materialize out of thin air.

Say it 'till you're blue in the face. It is still false.

Do you have a list of taboo subjects? Is it just religion?

[HRM Resident]

Post by HRM Resident

Post by HRM Resident
Like TFG uses "My freedom of speech allows me to say

anything."
He's mostly right.

Holy cow! You support hate speech, bigots, and TFG. A
closet MAGA wing ding. I hear that they walk among us, but
I must admit I am taken aback that one of “they” is you. I’m
shocked and wondering how you flew under the radar,
pretending to be a centre-left thinker. Are you a PeePee
supporter as well?

Ugh. Glad you don’t know where I live. That is all I need.
A MAGA gun nut after me. Time to for me to get out of
Dodge. Did you get your weapons from Jack-Ass? :-)

[James Warren]

Post by HRM Resident

Post by HRM Resident

Post by HRM Resident
Like TFG uses "My freedom of speech allows me to say

anything."
He's mostly right.

Holy cow! You support hate speech, bigots, and TFG. A
closet MAGA wing ding. I hear that they walk among us, but
I must admit I am taken aback that one of “they” is you. I’m
shocked and wondering how you flew under the radar,
pretending to be a centre-left thinker. Are you a PeePee
supporter as well?
Ugh. Glad you don’t know where I live. That is all I need.
A MAGA gun nut after me. Time to for me to get out of
Dodge. Did you get your weapons from Jack-Ass? :-)

Up to your old tricks of jumping to unwarranted conclusions again, I
see. So predictable. :)

[HRM Resident]

Post by James Warren
Up to your old tricks of jumping to unwarranted conclusions again, I
see. So predictable. :)

Post by HRM Resident

Post by HRM Resident
Like TFG uses "My freedom of speech allows me to say

anything."
He's mostly right."

Unwarrented conclusion? You, not me, are sticking up for a racist
bigot. Oh well. You hid it well. :-)

Nice day outside. Little breezy, but sun ,sun, sun. (No, I am not
a sun worshiper.) :-)

It's a long shot, but you might want to contact these people for
help:

<https://www.sacredwilderness.org/>

[James Warren]

Post by HRM Resident

Post by James Warren
Up to your old tricks of jumping to unwarranted conclusions again, I
see. So predictable. :)

Post by HRM Resident

Post by HRM Resident
Like TFG uses "My freedom of speech allows me to say

anything."
He's mostly right."

Unwarrented conclusion? You, not me, are sticking up for a racist
bigot. Oh well. You hid it well. :-)

Not sticking up for Trump. Sticking up for free speech. It is
hypocritical to deny free speech to those we don't like. You can speak
freely as long as I agree with you, right? :)

Post by HRM Resident
Nice day outside. Little breezy, but sun ,sun, sun. (No, I am not
a sun worshiper.) :-)
It's a long shot, but you might want to contact these people for
<https://www.sacredwilderness.org/>

[HRM Resident]

Post by James Warren
Not sticking up for Trump. Sticking up for free speech. It
is hypocritical to deny free speech to those we don't like.

Are you against hate speech laws? Is slander OK? I
don’t like what TFG says and does, but I don’t dislike him
because I never met him. I suspect that I would dismiss him
as a windbag, but I don’t know. Oh no! I said “I don’t know”
again. Would you have me executed for saying that if you
could? :-) :-)

[James Warren]

Post by HRM Resident

Post by James Warren
Not sticking up for Trump. Sticking up for free speech. It
is hypocritical to deny free speech to those we don't like.

Are you against hate speech laws? Is slander OK? I
don’t like what TFG says and does, but I don’t dislike him
because I never met him. I suspect that I would dismiss him
as a windbag, but I don’t know. Oh no! I said “I don’t know”
again. Would you have me executed for saying that if you
could? :-) :-)

Naw, I'll just dismiss you as a wackadoodle. :)

[HRM Resident]

Post by James Warren
Naw, I'll just dismiss you as a wackadoodle. :)

Let us call this silly “discussion” a draw. I can live with
being called a wackadoodle. I have been called worse things
by better people. :-) For two trivia points, who am I quoting
in the previous sentence?

[HRM Resident]

Post by James Warren
Say it 'till you're blue in the face. It is still false.
Do you have a list of taboo subjects? Is it just religion?

You are the rabid religion hater. At least since you showed up
here. I don't care who or what you hate, as long as it's not me. But
heaven's to Betsy, why do you support people like TFG and PeePee? TFG
went to a church 3-4 years back for a photo op. How do you square your
admiration for him with his being in a church. Not that I think he cares
for religion, given that he steals, lies, rapes, etc. . . . but anything
to get votes.

The Internet says PeePee "has faith in the Christian religion" and
was "raised in a family that follows Catholic Christianity." Your heros
seem to be religious believers . . . or pretend to be. Wow. I better
not peel back your onion any more . . . there are some weird layers.
:-) :-)

[James Warren]

Post by HRM Resident

Post by James Warren
Say it 'till you're blue in the face. It is still false.
Do you have a list of taboo subjects? Is it just religion?

You are the rabid religion hater. At least since you showed up
here. I don't care who or what you hate, as long as it's not me. But
heaven's to Betsy, why do you support people like TFG and PeePee? TFG
went to a church 3-4 years back for a photo op. How do you square your
admiration for him with his being in a church. Not that I think he cares
for religion, given that he steals, lies, rapes, etc. . . . but anything
to get votes.
The Internet says PeePee "has faith in the Christian religion" and
was "raised in a family that follows Catholic Christianity." Your heros
seem to be religious believers . . . or pretend to be. Wow. I better
not peel back your onion any more . . . there are some weird layers.
:-) :-)

Only in your fantasy world. :)

[Gurpster]

Post by HRM Resident
I see religious intolerance as similar to racism because
both are forms of bigotry. Both involve unfair treatment and
discrimination. Sometimes, it explodes into war (look at the
Middle East.)
Racism targets race, and religious intolerance targets beliefs. These
behaviours create division and hostility
in society, showing a refusal to accept and respect different
types of people.
Recognizing these actions as bigotry is essential for tackling their
harmful effects on communities. Those who
mock religious believers but pretend to be progressive
thinkers are no different than Archie Bunker-style bigots.
They claim they don’t care if making someone feel bad
by this mockery. I do care if I make someone feel bad
because of their beliefs. I am not a religious believer, but
I feel it is rude and disrespectful to mock them because
they think differently than I do.

You have a point, HRM. I'm as atheist as they come but I tend to keep it
to myself, without mocking religious believers. I know practicing clergy
and people who attend church uh,... religiously, and they're all good,
kind and generous folk. None of them talk religion to me, so I don't
talk about it either. Then I assume that others around me might also
believe and feel strongly about it as part of the core values, and I
just don't see why anyone would take a risk in being hurtful toward
them. Once in a while I'll express my thoughts online, but I try to do
it only in response to a direct question, or some pushy assertion, which
happens in social media, but it doesn't seem to happen much in real
life. I've had street people approach me to talk about religion and
usually when I say "there's no god" they just walk away. I agree, it's
intolerant to attack religious people over their beliefs.

John

[James Warren]

Post by Gurpster

     I see religious intolerance as similar to racism because
both are forms of bigotry.  Both involve unfair treatment and
discrimination.  Sometimes, it explodes into war (look at the
Middle East.)
     Racism targets race, and religious intolerance targets beliefs.
These
behaviours create division and hostility
in society, showing a refusal to accept and respect different
  types of people.
     Recognizing these actions as bigotry is essential for tackling their
harmful effects on communities.  Those who
mock religious believers but pretend to be progressive
thinkers are no different than Archie Bunker-style bigots.
     They claim they don’t care if making someone feel bad
by this mockery.  I do care if I make someone feel bad
because of their beliefs.  I am not a religious believer, but
I feel it is rude and disrespectful to mock them because
they think differently than I do.

You have a point, HRM. I'm as atheist as they come but I tend to keep it
to myself, without mocking religious believers. I know practicing clergy
and people who attend church uh,... religiously, and they're all good,
kind and generous folk. None of them talk religion to me, so I don't
talk about it either. Then I assume that others around me might also
believe and feel strongly about it as part of the core values, and I
just don't see why anyone would take a risk in being hurtful toward
them. Once in a while I'll express my thoughts online, but I try to do
it only in response to a direct question, or some pushy assertion, which
happens in social media, but it doesn't seem to happen much in real
life. I've had street people approach me to talk about religion and
usually when I say "there's no god" they just walk away. I agree, it's
intolerant to attack religious people over their beliefs.
John

I agree John. I keep it to myself unless a discussion is initiated by
others.

OTOH I see USENET as a forum to discuss all ideas, even those frowned on
by society. If not here, then where? Bad ideas will never go away unless
they are exposed and discussed.

[l***@florence.it]

On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 08:14:30 -0300, Gurpster
<***@nowhere.com> wrote:


snippage

Post by Gurpster
You have a point, HRM. I'm as atheist as they come but I tend to keep it
to myself, without mocking religious believers. I know practicing clergy
and people who attend church uh,... religiously, and they're all good,
kind and generous folk. None of them talk religion to me, so I don't
talk about it either. Then I assume that others around me might also
believe and feel strongly about it as part of the core values, and I
just don't see why anyone would take a risk in being hurtful toward
them. Once in a while I'll express my thoughts online, but I try to do
it only in response to a direct question, or some pushy assertion, which
happens in social media, but it doesn't seem to happen much in real
life. I've had street people approach me to talk about religion and
usually when I say "there's no god" they just walk away. I agree, it's
intolerant to attack religious people over their beliefs.
John

I'm with you - rarely mention the fact unless someone is preaching at
me :) There are people who are shocked to find they know someone who
doesn't believe there is a god.

[HRM Resident]

Post by l***@florence.it
On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 08:14:30 -0300, Gurpster
snippage

Post by Gurpster
You have a point, HRM. I'm as atheist as they come but I tend to keep it
to myself, without mocking religious believers. I know practicing clergy
and people who attend church uh,... religiously, and they're all good,
kind and generous folk. None of them talk religion to me, so I don't
talk about it either. Then I assume that others around me might also
believe and feel strongly about it as part of the core values, and I
just don't see why anyone would take a risk in being hurtful toward
them. Once in a while I'll express my thoughts online, but I try to do
it only in response to a direct question, or some pushy assertion, which
happens in social media, but it doesn't seem to happen much in real
life. I've had street people approach me to talk about religion and
usually when I say "there's no god" they just walk away. I agree, it's
intolerant to attack religious people over their beliefs.
John

I'm with you - rarely mention the fact unless someone is preaching at
me :) There are people who are shocked to find they know someone who
doesn't believe there is a god.

It's just common decency to keep religion and political views to
yourself unless someone starts shoving either down your throat. On
here, meh. It still can cause hard feelings if you insult someone, but
anyone using Usenet has to understand this is the wild west of the
Internet. If you show up here, expect to read and see just about
anything. Maybe this is a good place to vent.

I only had one "bad" experence IRL. DW has a friend she's known
from childhood. I knew her since I was about 18. This friend is a
woman who had a couple of kids with who knows who in her late teens
or early twenties. She took every drug known to man, lived with a guy
who was charged with B&E, etc. Basically a 'bad person.' Then around
age 50-55 she was born again, found Jesus and I'm not talking your run
of the mill Christian. A bible-banging nut who goes to some weird church.

About 10-12 years ago she visited for supper. She HAD to say grace,
etc. before eating. Fine, whatever. After the meal I moved a pot from
one burner to another with my bare hands. I let out "JESUS H CHRIST,
that fucking thing is hot!" She went berserk on me. Told me God
doesn't forgive taking his name in vain, and I was going to hell. No 2nd
chances. I took the lecture. I ain't a fighter IRL with stuff like
that. However, I figured if she was right, I could now steal, lie, rape,
etc., because I was screwed anyhow. :-) I didn't follow the logic.
According to her, there was no hope because I instinctively spit out
something that offended her (and whatever God she believed in) to the
point I was doomed. :-) Seemed to me everyone makes "mistakes" so her
religion is going to disappear through attrition!

After she left, I told DW "Don't you ever invite that crazy c**t
here again. She's nuts." And DW agreed with me. This was not the same
person we knew in our teens. She still texts biblical quotes to DW now
and then, but gets no response.