Chuckle for Mike Spencer

[HRM Resident]

Regarding stupidity, I am trying to make a goose-neck-
shaped flower pot hanger. The guy who told me about it
said to start with a piece of 1/2 inch square steel 10 inches
long, and to draw it out to about 18-19 inches.

I mistakenly used a 3/4-inch square piece (misread the
ruler because I didn’t wear my reading glasses under the
safety glasses.) What is a quarter of an inch difference, you
might ask?

Mathematically, a lot! The amount of steel to draw out
is over twice as much. 2.25 times as much to be exact. I
heated and pounding orange hot metal for two hours and
I can barely walk. Stupid, stupid —> HRM <— Stupid.

Tomorrow I will cut it in half and make a couple. Why
didn’t you tell me this is not a linear calculation? :-)

Yeah, I know better, but one remembers dumb things
if they learn the hard way.

[Mike Spencer]

Post by HRM Resident
Regarding stupidity, I am trying to make a goose-neck-
shaped flower pot hanger. The guy who told me about it
said to start with a piece of 1/2 inch square steel 10 inches
long, and to draw it out to about 18-19 inches.
I mistakenly used a 3/4-inch square piece (misread the
ruler because I didn't wear my reading glasses...

So 2.25 times the intended volume. I'm pretty sure there are
engineering formulae that quantify the amount of work in that kind of
malleability operation but I never saw them. Needed to plan the power
requirements of forging/pressing equipment.

And yeah, I'm also pretty sure the relation between that work and the
dimension of the stock is nonlinear.

I've made a lot of flower pot hangers using 3/8" round, only draw out
a little of one end to make the hook, the other end to make an
ornamental whatsit. Possibly lightly hammer all over without
significant dimension change to keep it from looking like plain mill
stock.

Here's a clue: If you're making a curved shape, there may be a good
reason to use square or rectangular stock. But if not, use round
stock. If your curve isn't perfectly circular or helical or whatever,
if it comes out with slight departure from intended elegant curvature,
the eye can more easily detect it when there are sharp corners on the
curved stock. With round stock, the eye is more easily fooled into
accepting slight deviations as all-good.

As an experiment, try making some heart shapes by bending 1/4" or
3/16" square. Then try the same with round stock. You may work out
some tricks -- making sure that the stock length allotted to each side
are the same, bending the the upper curve around a cylinder etc. But
even after you do that, you'll likely see that the hearts from round
stock usually look somehow wrong less often than those from square
stock.

I've made hundreds of little ca. 2" or 2.5" tall hearts as the
ornament on the end of all kinds of things. Stock is 1/4" square but
for the heart, I flatten some of one end, split w/ a chisel into a
fork, draw out the "tines" to tapered round, if necessary cut to
equal length and bend w/ a very simple jig. Almost every one comes
out visually perfect although close scrutiny will often show some
departure from symmetry. Even using a jig, getting the same effective
result with square cross section is just not worth the bother.

Post by HRM Resident
...I can barely walk. Stupid, stupid...

Put brain in gear before raising hammer. :-)

Post by HRM Resident
Why didn't you tell me this is not a linear calculation? :-)

You didn't ask. ;-)

I recall trying to use a cutting torch to cut the starter motor
attachment boss from a Volkswagen beetle "cast aluminum" transmission
case. I knew it wouldn't "cut" as steel does but thought I could just
melt the Al away. It set it on fire, filled the whole shop with smoke
and flocculent oxide before we put it out with a CO2 extinguisher.

Why didn't you tell me it was magnesium? :-o

[HRM Resident]

Post by Mike Spencer
So 2.25 times the intended volume. I'm pretty sure there
are engineering formulae that quantify the amount of work
in that kind of malleability operation but I never saw them.
Needed to plan the power requirements of forging/pressing
equipment.

Clearly not linear. I cut it in half today with my one luxury
item - a guillotine tool with cutting dies. I also have the
fuller and tenon dies. Everything else is just tongs,
hammers and an anvil. There is a lot of work involved when
I have to move any significant amount of steel. I did get
it finished today.

Post by Mike Spencer
I've made a lot of flower pot hangers using 3/8" round,
only draw out a little of one end to make the hook
snip<
Possibly lightly hammer all over without significant
dimension change to keep it from looking like plain mill
stock.

I use your suggestion from about a year ago a lot. Even if
I am making square shaft items, I almost always chamfer
it everywhere. Even the curly cue parts of hooks before
bending them. I did make a few heart hooks with the heart
portion at the top where the traditional finial would be.
I do use round stock, or stuff that I forge round using the
the square/octagon/round draw most of the time. This and
the chamfer trick does fool the eye well.

Post by Mike Spencer
if necessary cut to equal length and bend w/ a very simple
jig. Almost every one come out visually perfect although
close scrutiny will often show some departure from
symmetry. Even using a jig, getting the same effective
result with square cross section is just not worth the
bother.

I have made at least a dozen jigs in the past 6 months.
Anything I make more than 2 of gets one made if they will
allow me to get the symmetry to create the illusion that
they are identical. I also learned that an extra minute on
the anvil saves 10 minutes with a file.

The biggest challenge (successfully completed) was 6
double hooks riveted to a 26-inch backplate. They look
identical end on, and it is a place for a half dozen people
to hang their hat and coat.

I have discovered that paste wax applied when the steel
is black hot just enough to make it smoke a bit gives most
things a nice look.

Post by Mike Spencer
Put brain in gear before raising hammer. :-)

No fooling? :-)

Post by Mike Spencer
Why didn't you tell me it was magnesium? :-o

I didn’t know either. I got rid of my acetylene gear about
a year ago because of the cost. But I think I can up you on
the dumb use of it. I had my old snowblower in the shed
trying to get the front part off to replace an impeller. The
bolts would not move. I figured heat would solve that so I
went at them with the torch. My wife was steadying the
thing on about a 45 degree angle. We smelled gas, and I
noticed quite a bit running down the side from a leaking
cap on the top. Yikes! Torch OFF! There is only one
exit. If that had have caught, I would not be typing this
today. :-)

Anyway, I have about 50 thingamajigs on my display wall,
mostly hooks, and things with leaf patterns. That is about
half because I gave as many away. So about 100 things
made since mid-April. This was 90% with a propane
gas forge. The coal is better, but I was afraid of the $25K
fine levied because of the burn ban that comes and goes.

You started all this circa 2015 by suggesting I make a
nail or simple J hook. In hindsight, I probably should have
went the route you did. However, I am not a business man
and can not imagine I would have made any money doing
it.

It is a magical experience, moving scrap steel into a
design you dream up when you have insomnia or the like.
I find the artistic part kicking in more and more - far
surpassing the brute force of making pokers, etc. But age
has made it a 3-4 hours a day hobby.