Lie detectors

[HRM Resident]

I heard on my outside radio speaker (it doesn't work to scare
deer away from the garden) that Cape Breton Regional Municipality's
fire and emergency services committee is considering eliminating
lie-detector tests for firefighter job candidates. They say
polygraphs may no longer be relevant and are hurting recruitment
efforts.

I thought these things were eliminated from everywhere decades
ago because they are proven unreliable. I'm surprised CBRM, or
anyone else, still uses them in 2024.

[Gurpster]

Post by HRM Resident
I heard on my outside radio speaker (it doesn't work to scare
deer away from the garden) that Cape Breton Regional Municipality's
fire and emergency services committee is considering eliminating
lie-detector tests for firefighter job candidates. They say
polygraphs may no longer be relevant and are hurting recruitment
efforts.
I thought these things were eliminated from everywhere decades
ago because they are proven unreliable. I'm surprised CBRM, or
anyone else, still uses them in 2024.

A friend of mine worked in the HRM Geomatics section in a mapping
position and mid-career had to take a polygraph. I don't know what the
motive was but it included questions about recreational drug use. It
struck me as invasive and bizarre and I don't think I would have gone
along with it without a serious fight.

John

[HRM Resident]

Post by Gurpster
A friend of mine worked in the HRM Geomatics section in a mapping
position and mid-career had to take a polygraph. I don't know what the
motive was but it included questions about recreational drug use. It
struck me as invasive and bizarre and I don't think I would have gone
along with it without a serious fight.
John

Yeah, me too. I know if someone strapped all of those electodes on
me, I'd be nervous, and I *think* they look for sweating, increased
pulse, breathing rate, etc. as signs the person is lying. I do a lot of
things, but I don't lie. I'd be thinking this will screen me out on a
false positive. Also, I suspect a psychopath would give a false negative
as they apparently have no empathy or fear.

I wonder if you refused and lost the job/promotion as a result,
could you take the employer to court? James has a brother who is a
lawyer. Maybe we can get a legal opinion. I'm just curious as I don't
expect I'll ever be asked to take one.

[James Warren]

Post by HRM Resident

Post by Gurpster
A friend of mine worked in the HRM Geomatics section in a mapping
position and mid-career had to take a polygraph. I don't know what the
motive was but it included questions about recreational drug use. It
struck me as invasive and bizarre and I don't think I would have gone
along with it without a serious fight.
John

Yeah, me too. I know if someone strapped all of those electodes on
me, I'd be nervous, and I *think* they look for sweating, increased
pulse, breathing rate, etc. as signs the person is lying. I do a lot of
things, but I don't lie. I'd be thinking this will screen me out on a
false positive. Also, I suspect a psychopath would give a false negative
as they apparently have no empathy or fear.
I wonder if you refused and lost the job/promotion as a result,
could you take the employer to court? James has a brother who is a
lawyer. Maybe we can get a legal opinion. I'm just curious as I don't
expect I'll ever be asked to take one.

My lawyer brother is a public defender. He may not be up on employment
law. Maybe it's really a matter of invasion of privacy. Dunno.

[HRM Resident]

Post by James Warren
My lawyer brother is a public defender. He may not be
up on employment law. Maybe it's really a matter of
invasion of privacy. Dunno.

The more I think about it, the more I believe the employer
can ask anything reasonable they want in a job selection
process. While a polygraph is inadmissible in court, this
is not a legal case. They could ask you to recite the
alphabet backwards in French or German if they wanted,
I think.

As long as there is no clear violation of gender, racism or
the like, I bet it is OK.

I guess I would do it under mild protest instead of giving
up a shot at the job. That is based on my experience in the
job market. Today with the shortage of workers, it could be
a different story. That may be why they are discontinuing
using it.

[James Warren]

Post by HRM Resident

Post by James Warren
My lawyer brother is a public defender. He may not be
up on employment law. Maybe it's really a matter of
invasion of privacy. Dunno.

The more I think about it, the more I believe the employer
can ask anything reasonable they want in a job selection
process. While a polygraph is inadmissible in court, this
is not a legal case. They could ask you to recite the
alphabet backwards in French or German if they wanted,
I think.
As long as there is no clear violation of gender, racism or
the like, I bet it is OK.
I guess I would do it under mild protest instead of giving
up a shot at the job. That is based on my experience in the
job market. Today with the shortage of workers, it could be
a different story. That may be why they are discontinuing
using it.

Perhaps so. I know of no one who did it. I read that some employers
used, and perhaps still use, handwriting analysis in job interviews even
though it is known to be pseudoscience. Many use Myers-Briggs test and
that is junk too. So, yes, I guess they can use whatever method they
like, even tarot cards or astrology if they want.

[l***@florence.it]

On Sun, 5 May 2024 07:45:32 -0300, James Warren

Post by James Warren

Post by HRM Resident

Post by James Warren
My lawyer brother is a public defender. He may not be
up on employment law. Maybe it's really a matter of
invasion of privacy. Dunno.

The more I think about it, the more I believe the employer
can ask anything reasonable they want in a job selection
process. While a polygraph is inadmissible in court, this
is not a legal case. They could ask you to recite the
alphabet backwards in French or German if they wanted,
I think.
As long as there is no clear violation of gender, racism or
the like, I bet it is OK.
I guess I would do it under mild protest instead of giving
up a shot at the job. That is based on my experience in the
job market. Today with the shortage of workers, it could be
a different story. That may be why they are discontinuing
using it.

Perhaps so. I know of no one who did it. I read that some employers
used, and perhaps still use, handwriting analysis in job interviews even
though it is known to be pseudoscience. Many use Myers-Briggs test and
that is junk too. So, yes, I guess they can use whatever method they
like, even tarot cards or astrology if they want.

I applied for a job with a large company and after the interview he
asked me if I would take an IQ test. I had the test, paper and pencil
and many of the questions were of mathematical type which is not my
thing. So I went through fast answering everything else.

I got the job and a couple of years later he asked if I had somehow
cheated in order to get such a high mark!! When he showed me how he
had a template that he laid over the paper which simply showed the
correct answers, all became clear. I got high marks for speed not
knowledge! They stopped using the test thereafter.

[HRM Resident]

I got high marks for speed not knowledge! They stopped
using the test thereafter.

I think that you are the smartest person left in this group!

[Gurpster]

Post by HRM Resident

Post by James Warren
My lawyer brother is a public defender. He may not be
up on employment law. Maybe it's really a matter of
invasion of privacy. Dunno.

The more I think about it, the more I believe the employer
can ask anything reasonable they want in a job selection
process. While a polygraph is inadmissible in court, this
is not a legal case. They could ask you to recite the
alphabet backwards in French or German if they wanted,
I think.
As long as there is no clear violation of gender, racism or
the like, I bet it is OK.
I guess I would do it under mild protest instead of giving
up a shot at the job. That is based on my experience in the
job market. Today with the shortage of workers, it could be
a different story. That may be why they are discontinuing
using it.

Yes but this was absent a job competition. There was no obvious trigger
for it, that's what's so objectionable to me. I will ask him the
details, as it sure sounds like a legitimate case for a union grievance.

John

[HRM Resident]

Post by Gurpster
Yes but this was absent a job competition. There was no
obvious trigger for it, that's what's so objectionable to
me. I will ask him the details, as it sure sounds like a
legitimate case for a union grievance.
John

If that’s the case, then the union should be involved.
Maybe a grievance will fail, but it will make it miserable for
management, and hopefully, they will think twice before
trying stunts like that willy-nilly. It’s the only resort workers
have to fight back.

Sort of remotely related, I always side with the defence in
criminal cases. Probably in many situations, the defendant
is guilty (the Oland murder in NB comes to mind,) but the
prosecutors have almost unlimited resources, as do the
police. They also have years of experience, whereas defendants have none
of the above unless they are billionaires.

I am proud to say I have paid zero attention to the Trump
trial. I have a friend who is glued to the TV watching it, and
he calls me up, trying to give me a blow-by-blow account
every few days. I tell him “not interested” a couple of times
, and if he keeps going, I hang up. That seems to have worked as he hasn’t
mentioned it in a couple of weeks.

[Mike Spencer]

I am proud to say I have paid zero attention to the Trump trial.

Oh, well then, let me catch you up on the excitin...

NO CARRIER

[HRM Resident]

Post by Mike Spencer
Oh, well then, let me catch you up on the excitin...
NO CARRIER

Thank you, Mike! A perfect answer . . . :-)